Secondary - Keg or Plastic Bucket

[dx4100]

Hi Guys

I am doing this Belgian Ale viewtopic.php?f=14&t=49336

I need to rack off the yeast after the main fermentation has finished and then cold crash it for several weeks. I have two corny kegs going spare at the moment (one I was planning to use for this beer and then bottle the rest) and spare plastic FV.

Am I best racking off to the kegs or the plastic FV...

If I rack off to the kegs would I need to seal the lids with some Co2 or just close it up ?

Thanks for any help

 

[kev]

Up to you really. There's no difference to the end product. The only decision is can you spare a cornie for a few weeks? However, most Belgians are MUCH better with age so I'd advise months not weeks. Can you live with a full cornie for that time?

As far as the gas goes, yes you will need to add c02 to the keg when you fill it. This is for a number of reasons - firstly to remove oxygen to reduce chance of it going bad. You'll need to fill/purge/fill/purge the keg a few times to burp out all the air. Secondly the gas will shove the lid into place therefore creating a better seal.

Enjoy

K

 

[dx4100]

How great is the risk of oxidation in a plastic FV over a six week period ?

Also... If I transfer to a FV how the heck do you not expose all the ale to oxygen as you do so ? Sounds impossible...

 

[NickW]

How great is the risk of oxidation in a plastic FV over a six week period ?

Also... If I transfer to a FV how the heck do you not expose all the ale to oxygen as you do so ? Sounds impossible...

I can only comment from experience that 8 weeks I lagered in a plastic FV and all was well :thumb:

 

[dx4100]

Did you do that in primary or did you transfer to secondary ?

 

[Gethin79]

Also... If I transfer to a FV how the heck do you not expose all the ale to oxygen as you do so ? Sounds impossible...

You will expose the ale to oxygen as you rack, there is no way to avoid that, but you just have to minimise splashing. When I racked my lager into a secondary plastic fv, despite the fact that the fermentation had finished, it stirred up the CO2 already held in solution. This started the airlock going mad. I have now left the fv sealed under an airlock and would imagine it is now happily blanketed in CO2 as long as it is left undisturbed. :thumb:

 

[NickW]

Did you do that in primary or did you transfer to secondary ?

I'll probably get slated for this but, it was all done in primary :)

 

[graysalchemy]

How great is the risk of oxidation in a plastic FV over a six week period ?

Also... If I transfer to a FV how the heck do you not expose all the ale to oxygen as you do so ? Sounds impossible...

I have been a regular user of this forum for a fair while now and one thing I have not come across ( I may be wrong) is people who have had oxidised beer through transfering to a secondary. However there are plenty of post by people (myself included) who have had infected beer through dirty FV's ie Not transferring to a secondary.

To me the benefits outweigh any risk of oxidation (if transferred properly). :thumb: :thumb:

 

[PaulCa]

Don't mean to be a scare monger, but I have infected 4 brews, 3 by opening the FV in the later stages of the ferment and 1 after transferring to the secondary for clearing.

Day 10: Open fermenter, smell, mmmm lovely.
Day 14: Open fermenter, YUK! WTF? Spidery, webby, white film all over the surface.

All I can conclude is opening the fermenter either allowed something in, or allowed enough O2 in for something that was already in there to activate on the beer surface.

3 of them where plastic fermenter buckets and one a screw cap barrel (which I had left for over a month in the FV before opening, 2 days later, infected). I now take great care opening the barrel to make sure I do not disturb the CO2 blanket. Still I think it's risky, but unavoidable. I don't bother clearing in a bucket now, I just keg it and accept the first few pints will be cloudy.

 

[Pakman]

I always rack into a plastic keg to condition my brews before bottling. Even though they've been in the FV for 14 days they continue creating CO2 until the last few days of conditioning. I know this because I let it escape by cracking open the cap once a day until the hissing stops. This ensures all the Oxygen is expelled by the CO2 as well. Then I bottle it. It's a system that seems to work well for me.
Graham

 

[dx4100]

Cheers guys...

I trust myself to properly clean and sterilise a FV and I don't have an option but to transfer the beer given the style / yeast. It needs to come off the yeast.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

[IOMMick]

Don't mean to be a scare monger, but I have infected 4 brews, 3 by opening the FV in the later stages of the ferment and 1 after transferring to the secondary for clearing.

Day 10: Open fermenter, smell, mmmm lovely.
Day 14: Open fermenter, YUK! WTF? Spidery, webby, white film all over the surface.

All I can conclude is opening the fermenter either allowed something in, or allowed enough O2 in for something that was already in there to activate on the beer surface.

3 of them where plastic fermenter buckets and one a screw cap barrel (which I had left for over a month in the FV before opening, 2 days later, infected). I now take great care opening the barrel to make sure I do not disturb the CO2 blanket. Still I think it's risky, but unavoidable. I don't bother clearing in a bucket now, I just keg it and accept the first few pints will be cloudy.

Sounds scarey - and sounds like quite a bad problem if it's happened 4 times. Out of how many brews are we talking? If you've been hit more than usual could it be environmental, say damp and fungus growth or something like that?

I'm worried because I've been a little bit lax when dropping a hydrometer straight into my bucket after only rinsing it with water etc.

 

[dx4100]

You really don't want to be doing that...

Buy a sample jar and turkey baster from Tesco... Sterilise everything every time!

 

[Fore]

The first response was spot on. A keg would be great, as it's normally better sealed, but can you live without a keg during the time it clears? My PET secondary fermenter cost 20 pounds, and a Cornie cost me 130 pounds, so my cornies are reserved for the finished product. Ideal would be to line up several full clearing PET secondary fermenters waiting for the next empty Cornie, but so far I'm just managing with one.

N.B. the Better Bottle PET type secondary fermenters are supposed to be much more oxygen tight than standard buckets. Glass is the best, but a bit heavy and dangerous.

 

[dx4100]

Im going to be using a plastic FV... Will take the risk. Thanks guys...

 

[PaulCa]

Sounds scarey - and sounds like quite a bad problem if it's happened 4 times. Out of how many brews are we talking? If you've been hit more than usual could it be environmental, say damp and fungus growth or something like that?

Probably close to 60 or 70 brews over 3 years, so not that bad on average. I suppose it could be environmental. Damp, unlikely, it's a very well insulated and centrally heated apartment. The level of "cleanliness" in my household is another story, I go as far as to stop it looking like a bachelor tip and that's about it. :) It's probably just unlikely and the bottle bucket incident was probably cause I didn't clean the bucket well enough after it sat open on the shelf for 6 months.

 

[gl0ckage]

I'm probably the most sloppy person when it comes to sterilisation and I've only had 1 infected brew. I can't remember the last time I sanitised my hydrometer, I left some cider in my trial jar with the hydrometer in and a week later it had fermented down lol!

I'd say there's a infection in your buckets. I open my lids all the time and never infect them, my first brews I opened it twice a day.

I only sterilise my spoon and bucket everything else gets boiled. Also I don't use starsan I use bruclens.

 

[PaulCa]

I'd say there's a infection in your buckets. I open my lids all the time and never infect them, my first brews I opened it twice a day.

Surely if there was an infection in the buckets the infection would start before the yeast kick off and not be fine for nearly 2 weeks and only kick off when opened?

Anyway it's been about 10 brews since I had an infection. I use a screw top barrel and to inspect I just pull the rubber bung and peek in. I haven't been bothering with hydrometer readings for a long time, I just give it 2 weeks and note when the airlock stops, raise the temp to 24C for the remainder.

So maybe my current sanitation is working fine and I was doing something wrong before.

 

[tommidolcetto]

I use a screw top wine fermenter for 2nd fv with an airlock, syphon in with no splashing, CO2 protects brew, never any problems, beer clears very will and the fv has handles and is easier to move than a bucket. Got a lager in it at the moment and don't see any problems in leaving it for 6 weeks - apart from the need to now buy another one for the current fermenting brew!

 

[PaulCa]

Oops.