Scottish independence -

[An Ankoù]

The only real issue is if Scotland became independent, would whisky be duty free on the other side of the border!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Do the SNP have any policies apart from Independence whatever that means.
what is their policy on:-
Defence
Currency
Taxation
Immigration
Ownership of Utilities
UK political parties in the new state
The UK Royal Family being their head of state.
Trade with the UK and EU.
Their share of the UK debt
Border control and duty.

 

[lancon]

Does anyone remember when SNP was a right wing party? how did the leopard change its spots? Has it? A single issue party asks lots of questions of itself and people supporting it should consider this, and nationalism is generally not a good thing?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Does anyone remember when SNP was a right wing party? how did the leopard change its spots? Has it? A single issue party asks lots of questions of itself and people supporting it should consider this, and nationalism is generally not a good thing?

Some of the SNP supported the Nazis before and during WW2. There’s a big difference between nationalism and patriotism. Nationalism is a right wing movement as was seen during brexit whereas patriotism is being proud of your country.

 

[Brew_DD2]

A

Do the SNP have any policies apart from Independence whatever that means.
what is their policy on:-
Defence
Currency
Taxation
Immigration
Ownership of Utilities
UK political parties in the new state
The UK Royal Family being their head of state.
Trade with the UK and EU.
Their share of the UK debt
Border control and duty.

A quick Google would tell you that they produced The White Paper, a 650-page policy document, prior to the previous Independence campaign. It covered many of the areas you've listed.

Others within that list would be determined by whichever government was voted for in an independent Scotland. That's the beauty of a democracy, you get to choose who represents your beliefs. I certainly want an independent Scotland because I have any great love of the SNP. The current system of governance had left too many in Scotland, and indeed many other parts of the UK, politically homeless.

 

[lancon]

A


A quick Google would tell you that they produced The White Paper, a 650-page policy document, prior to the previous Independence campaign. It covered many of the areas you've listed.

Others within that list would be determined by whichever government was voted for in an independent Scotland. That's the beauty of a democracy, you get to choose who represents your beliefs. I certainly want an independent Scotland because I have any great love of the SNP. The current system of governance had left too many in Scotland, and indeed many other parts of the UK, politically homeless.

Where would you say that they aligned to, disregarding the independence question, with reference to the Conservative, LibDem and Labour?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I have been listening to the 5live Dotum Adabyo phone in podcast from 15/6 a lot of Scots from both sides giving their views on independence, well worth a listen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00186cp

 

[Brew_DD2]

Where would you say that they aligned to, disregarding the independence question, with reference to the Conservative, LibDem and Labour?

The SNP? Centre-Left. They've swallowed up the Labour vote.

 

[Lesinge]

Just listen to the words and you may get a feeling for why some Scots want independence!



There’s the saying “England buys the cheapest Scot to do their dirty work!” and some people have a long memory!
:hat:

"In late 1690, the Scottish government agreed to pay the Jacobite clan chiefs a total of £12,000 in return for swearing an oath of loyalty to William and Mary; however, disagreements over how to divide the money meant by December 1691 none of them had taken the oath"

A doubt a place that contains both Rangers and Celtic will become a simple harmonious nation after a vote either.

 

[Lesinge]

I don’t understand the need for Scotland to get permission from the UK government to have a referendum or leave. It seems to me that because Scotland joined the union voluntarily then they should be free to leave it. Any historians or lawyers out there who can clarify?

I would imagine that since they joined we became one country rather than a federation and the idea was that they couldn't just leave once they got over being skint from the failed American adventures. I do find it amusing how some Scots, who were the backbone of the British Empire, now pretend that they were just the victims of it and how nasty the "English" were to them. The Campbell's and other Scottish nobles ruled Scotland not English lords. The only private army in Europe are the Atholl Highlanders.

 

[Lesinge]

I think that if the Scots want to leave they should be allowed to, as long as its a democratic vote. However, I can't see it working as the SNPs figures always overestimate the value of the oil they may have left. The other issue is that we will need to have a hard border because they have indicated that they will welcome mass immigration into the country. In reality if you are coming from say Sri Lanka you aren't generally coming because you want to live in Easterhouse but rather you may want to go to where your family or friends already are and that is likely to be in one of the big cities in England, especially London. With a mismatch in the two countries policies there will need to be controls to stop people just coming into Glasgow and hopping over the border.

 

[Branny]

Will the First Minister of Scotland replace Hadrian's Wall with Nicola's Wall?

 

[Brewnaldo]

The history bit.

Scotland had attempted to start creating it's own empire, starting in a place called Darien, which was sandwiched between modern day Panama and Colombia. It didn't go well, and left Scotland financially desperate.

Already sharing a monarch, the Scots then petitioned England to form a Union, which was agreed. A union is not a partnership, one party cannot walk away, both have to agree to any future separation.

That's the legal bit.

The current situation is a bit farcical. The SNP know they won't win a second referendum, but have to keep saying they want one to keep their supporters on side. There was a time when they dreamt of an indolent socialist paradise funded by oil - a mini Venezuela - but that dream is long gone now.

The alternative is to build the Scottish economy with inward investment, making it an attractive destination for multi nationals and to wean Scotland off English dependence. Scotland has quite a lot going for it in terms of resources and inventiveness, it's not an impossible ask, but the blue blooded capitalism required is not the SNP's idea of fun.

The SNP make no attempt to make Scotland financially self-sufficient and able to function as an independent state. The financial black hole has always been bad, but fuelled by Covid the most recent data shows England bailing out Scotland to the tune of roughly £8,000 per Scot per annum.

So why doesn't Boris call the SNP's bluff?

There's a very good reason. Labour have no serious chance of forming a majority government in Westminster without Scottish seats. For the critical demographic who win or lose general elections, the 10% floating voters in the 10% most marginal seats - just 1% of the electorate - the Harlow electrician or the Worcester barmaid - the idea of Labour having to get into bed with the SNP to form a government is particularly toxic. It's the bogeyman that keeps on giving to the Conservatives.

The SNP don't really want another referendum - they know what happened to the Quebec separatists after they lost a second time, and Boris is entirely content for Sturgeon to pout and vent her spleen whilst denying her one.

- They are both very happy with the status quo, but will never admit it.

Lots of opi ion presented as fact, which is par for the course on Internet forums, but maybe next time a bit less of the misogynistic tones directed at Scotlands elected First Minister.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Will the First Minister of Scotland replace Hadrian's Wall with Nicola's Wall?

Stuff like this just adds so much to the discussion. Incredibly witty and insightful.

 

[Branny]

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

 

[Branny]

Stuff like this just adds so much to the discussion. Incredibly witty and insightful.

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

 

[GhostShip]

I actually feel sorry for the majority of people in Scotland - that's the majority who don't vote for the SNP and the majority who voted in 2014 to remain in the Union in a 'once in a generation referendum'. Sturgeon is perfectly happy to ignore each and every one of them in her pursuit of more and more power.

I have family and many friends in Scotland and life under the SNP has become very tough. Education is going backwards, the health service is a mess, the deficit has increased and certain monies appear to have disappeared and can't be found. Many businesses in Scotland suffered more than businesses in the rest of the UK during the pandemic, as the SNP don't seem to be very good at handing out money given to them by Westminster. They're a bunch of third-rate 'politicians' (I use the word loosely), who want independence at ANY cost - regardless of the negative impact it will have on people's lives and prosperity.

It's all smoke and mirrors anyway - they can't have a referendum without the approval of Westminster, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

A


A quick Google would tell you that they produced The White Paper, a 650-page policy document, prior to the previous Independence campaign. It covered many of the areas you've listed.

Others within that list would be determined by whichever government was voted for in an independent Scotland. That's the beauty of a democracy, you get to choose who represents your beliefs. I certainly want an independent Scotland because I have any great love of the SNP. The current system of governance had left too many in Scotland, and indeed many other parts of the UK, politically homeless.

Remind us of what was in the white paper.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Remind us of what was in the white paper.

Bugger off you can Google it in seconds.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Was the white paper on a roll in the gents