Saison Stupidity (Yeast Comparison)

[MartinHaworth]

A couple of months ago, I did a split batch and tested out 6 hefe yeasts. It was a bit of work but fun.

So, I scratched my head - what could I do next? Hardy soul @keith1664 has put so much time and work into malt comparisons - brewing (I think) 8 separate batches from scratch - but I don't fancy that much work!

So, splitting the batch after the boil seems perhaps the easiest way to go. And I have roped in a couple of idiots, sorry, Norwich brewers, to lend a hand if the yeast list gets too long

So. Saison Yeasts.

I would like your suggestions of what yeasts should go into the comparison. Dry, liquid, bretted - have at it!

Thanks

Martin

(just thought, as I understand it Bretted yeasts need time to develop character, so some thoughts about the timeline and aging might be useful as well)

 

[MickDundee]

Belle Saison and MJ M29 are the only 2 I’ve used so I’ll suggest them

 

[chesters-mild]

MJ 29 works OK, never tried Belle Saison. However the best Saison I ever made was with the yeast cultivated from a 75 cl. bottle of
Saison D'Erpe-Mere (KleinBrouwerij De Glazen Toren) - my local home brew club loved it. Like an idiot I never saved the yeast, but post CV19 I:'ll do it again. BTW I've found that Saisons improve with long conditioning - have you found this also ?

 

[Leon103]

The cml lille yeast is nice for a saison

 

[MickDundee]

The cml lille yeast is nice for a saison

When it first appeared there were a lot of people moaning about crap attenuation with this yeast, so I never used it. Has this been rectified now?

 

[Leon103]

When it first appeared there were a lot of people moaning about crap attenuation with this yeast, so I never used it. Has this been rectified now?

Will need to check beersmith for the outcome when I used it. I think it didn't drop as much as I expected but it's a decent saison yeast and so cheap

 

[MrRook]

Belle Saison and MJ M29 are the only 2 I’ve used so I’ll suggest them

The only saison that I've ever brewed was fermented with belle saison. I was quite happy with the results.

 

[Scrattajack]

The first all-grain brew we did was a Saison with 3711 and that turned out really well, in fact, it's still our favourite of all. Our latest is another, this time with Belle Saison but that's not ready for another week. The local homebrew shop guy who did all-grain courses brought along a Belgian beer made with it and that was really good though some brewers don't rate it. I'd be really interested in your opinion if you pick it.

 

[Sadfield]

Belle Saison, 3711 and MJ French Saison are likely all from the same source, Brasserie Theriez. Something to consider, prove or disprove.

Safale BE134 is a good one to compare with belle Saison, and is my go to dry saison yeast. I've read rumours that it is a dry version of the Dupont yeast, although I take that with a big pinch of salt. I'd be interested to see it compared with WLP565

WLP670 American Farmhouse Blend is great too, although contains Brett. Reputedly from Lost Abbey.

Bretted strains will still work as a comparison young as you'll get mainly the saccharomyces character initially.

 

[Hanglow]

Definitely do the Dupont yeast, WY 3724 and the Blaugies one, WY 3726 . Or equivalents from whoever else sells them like Omega etc

 

[MartinHaworth]

Thanks folks.

This is looking like a long (and expensive) list already. I may need a sponsor!!
Wyeast: 3724, 3711, 3031, 3726
WLP: 564,565,566,568,585,590

Dry: Bel Saison, M29, safale BE 134.

13 yeasts.

I need to thin this out.

Help please.

Any I wonder whether anyone might give me a substantive discount!!

 

[samale]

I have used WLP 670 Brett Saison yeast. Plus Bella saison and Be 134

 

[Sadfield]

Thanks folks.

This is looking like a long (and expensive) list already. I may need a sponsor!!
Wyeast: 3724, 3711, 3031, 3726
WLP: 564,565,566,568,585,590

Dry: Bel Saison, M29, safale BE 134.

13 yeasts.

I need to thin this out.

Help please.

Any I wonder whether anyone might give me a substantive discount!!

I guess you need to set some form of goal to aim for, be it comparing wet vs dry, wlp vs wyeast strains from the same source or finding a yeast to fit a desired profile.

 

[samale]

An option to consider would be to send out a message to the forum to see who has any bottle condition Saison using the yeasts your looking for.
For example I have wlp670 plus Bella saison that I would be willing to post in a bottle swap. This could cut the cost plus you get to taste the beer.

 

[Oneflewover]

The cml lille yeast is nice for a saison

I've got a pack of Lille in the fridge, so I just went to the CML website to check the specs for it. Couldn't find it, have they stopped selling it? Admittedly ice probably had the sachet in the fridge for quite a while

 

[Oneflewover]

Thanks folks.

This is looking like a long (and expensive) list already. I may need a sponsor!!
Wyeast: 3724, 3711, 3031, 3726
WLP: 564,565,566,568,585,590

Dry: Bel Saison, M29, safale BE 134.

13 yeasts.

I need to thin this out.

Help please.

Any I wonder whether anyone might give me a substantive discount!!

I've only ever used wy3711 for saison, it does everything I want and if it ain't broke..... However I was recently sent a beer fermented with Belle Saison and I was very impressed. Following your experiment with interest

 

[Leon103]

I've got a pack of Lille in the fridge, so I just went to the CML website to check the specs for it. Couldn't find it, have they stopped selling it? Admittedly ice probably had the sachet in the fridge for quite a while

I bought it in the summer. Perhaps it's just sold out.

Edit - looking at their original yeasts and they have all changed.

 

[MartinHaworth]

I guess you need to set some form of goal to aim for, be it comparing wet vs dry, wlp vs wyeast strains from the same source or finding a yeast to fit a desired profile.

That is a really good point, and well made. THank you @Sadfield

My last exbeeriment partially foundered (in my opinion) on the lack of a clear research question (although there was a clear result - weihenstephaner liquid yeast is the best hefe yeast).

I think preferences for saison character are going to be so subjective.

So, starting again with a blank sheet of paper:

- rule out bretted yeasts, as they take so much longer to develop the character.

I could go for:

- 'compare wet and dry french saison yeasts' (Belle Saison v wy3711 v wlp590)
- 'compare wet and dry belgium saison yeasts (be134 v wy3724 v wlp565)
- 'reflect on the difference between french and belgium saisons'

I'd value opinions please - is this looking any tighter?

CHeers

MArtin

 

[strange-steve]

If it were me I think I would select a range of different strains from one manufacturer to find which produces the "best" saison, for example WLP565, 566, 568, and 590. Of course it's going to be subjective, but since you have a club it'd be interesting to see which came out on top overall.

 

[MartinHaworth]

If it were me I think I would select a range of different strains from one manufacturer to find which produces the "best" saison, for example WLP565, 566, 568, and 590. Of course it's going to be subjective, but since you have a club it'd be interesting to see which came out on top overall.

Thanks, that's a great idea.

Keeep the thinking coming folks!

In a couple of days I'll speak to my fellow idiots brewers in Norwich Amateur BRewers and try to get to a decision.

Thanks to all for sharing your thinking.

Martin