Russet apples

[Damsonite]

Ok, so an early subject considering there are a few months yet before they're in season, but nothing wrong in planning...so, after reading up a bit about apples in general I have a question - why, according to CJJB, are Russet apples to be "avoided"? He fails to elaborate on this comment and simply leaves the idea hanging in the air. Anyone here any idea?

Seemingly they're of low juice yield per weight of fruit and somewhat less acidic than other varieties of apple so they'd probably be hopeless for cider making, and yet at least to me they have an exquisite and unique flavour that I'm sure would make a delicious wine, especially in conbination with sultanas. Despite being regarded by some as a 'connoisseur' apple though, apparently they're no good for wine making?

Anyone ever tried using Russets, or any thoughts/advice on the subject?

 

[Mark1964]

Russets are tasty but as you say they have no juice which makes them no good for cider. Ive never used any kind of apples so cant say. Ive just used juice.

 

[BrewBoy]

Probably too high in sugar with not enough tannin. Probably be ok if mixed with some cookers though.

 

[Crastney]

keeping off topic, how about getting the melon juice, and then heating it to evaporate off some of the liquid, concentrate the flavour, and then you'd have to use your own yeast, but thsi might work.

I make cider from apples, but I don't know enough about the varieties to know why Russets don't work very well.

 

[user 1290]

I've got a Russet tree that produces around 400 lbs of apples in a good year (biennial cropping), and can only assume Berry was talking about fermenting them on the pulp as they produce rubbish wine that way.

But I press them for juice which is used for both drinking and wine/cider making (the latter when blended with other juices). The juice can have a slight greenish tint to it but this goes after fermentation. If left too long before pressing they can get rather soft/dry and yield juice that has a sediment which is difficult to get to drop (even using addition of pectolase which normally does the job with most apple juices overnight), resulting in a sediment that's both at the bottom and floating on top and requires siphoning from the middle to get a clear juice for bottling.

 

[Damsonite]

@BrewBoy... They are sweet to the taste, true, though not sure that excess sugar would be a problem - I understood that the sugar yield of Russets (at least in terms of glucose) is quite low compared to other varieties, and tannin also seems about avarage. If anything, perhaps they'd need the addition of more pectozyme than usual to break down those tough skins? Not sure how long one would soak a Russet pulp before adding the nutrient and yeast, though. I did think that a mix with Bramleys would be a better idea than just Russets alone, but I guess that I'd have to experiment a bit in order to figure out the right proportions as I'd want to try and maintain that unique Russet flavour if possible...

@Crastney... Think I might be misunderstanding your post - you mean to boil the apples in melon juice? I get the drift on the general method, but I'd thought that if adding liquid anything other than the apple juice itself, either cold boiled water or filtered spring water would be more efficient in the case of apples? Wouldn't boiling the fruit simply create a haze later?

@David... Very useful input and thanks. Weird about that separation, though - is the floating stuff defintely what would normally be sediment, or some sort of haze? Also, would finings take care of the floating debris, do you think? Seems like pressing's the best way to go with apples in general and I'll be looking for a suitable press (need a 'handy' sized one for genral fruit juice extraction, anyway), though I don't plan on dealing with anything even close to 400lbs of apples! :shock:

 

[user 1290]

David... Very useful input and thanks. Weird about that separation, though - is the floating stuff defintely what would normally be sediment, or some sort of haze? Also, would finings take care of the floating debris, do you think? Seems like pressing's the best way to go with apples in general and I'll be looking for a suitable press (need a 'handy' sized one for genral fruit juice extraction, anyway), though I don't plan on dealing with anything even close to 400lbs of apples! :shock:

It's the solids that would normally sink to the bottom as sediment. It's not a problem if the russets are pressed as soon as they're ripe, but as I press around 2,000 lbs of apples each year I sometimes forget and leave some too long (which also results in a lower juice yield when pressing), so when I press the juice it has a floaty top layer that refuses to drop and it also has a green tinge to it.

 

[Crastney]

I actually wasn't meaning to include any apples with the melon juice - just the juice from melons, but concentrated somehow, not necessarily boiled, but heated to start evaporation.
maybe a melon liquer.

I'm planning on building my own press, and scratter... in time for this years harvest, but I don't yet know where to source the apples, or how many - usually I only do between 5 and 10 gallons myself.

 

[peter p]

Ok, so an early subject considering there are a few months yet before they're in season, but nothing wrong in planning...so, after reading up a bit about apples in general I have a question - why, according to CJJB, are Russet apples to be "avoided"? He fails to elaborate on this comment and simply leaves the idea hanging in the air. Anyone here any idea?
Seemingly they're of low juice yield per weight of fruit and somewhat less acidic than other varieties of apple so they'd probably be hopeless for cider making, and yet at least to me they have an exquisite and unique flavour that I'm sure would make a delicious wine, especially in conbination with sultanas. Despite being regarded by some as a 'connoisseur' apple though, apparently they're no good for wine making?
Anyone ever tried using Russets, or any thoughts/advice on the subject?

I'm not an expert, but I don't agree with the above, there are Commercial Craft Cider makers in the UK specialising in single variety ciders one of which is Russet. I am a hobby Craft Cider maker and don't sell it. lets ignore the big industrial cider makers who use an amount of chemicals sugar filtrating (as opposed to raking, higher loss) etc.
The difference between me and a commercial craft maker is he/ she has to make a living and compete with other products such as craft beer. And comply with Revenue regs etc.
Cider and wine needs to have a certain level of acid in it or impurities may form and sufficient sugar (SG1050+) or it won't reach 6% ABV needed (without pasteurisation) to self preserve.
The Russet is very high in sugar and can make a cider over 8.4%ABV which is classified as wine which at that strength will attract higher excise duty, so these craft makers have to be careful. I on the other hand do not have too!
Russet is high in sugar but neither acid or tannin led so I use mine to good effect in a blend. it's a very late apple and many will stay on the tree into December, so they need to be picked or shaken off. I check the sugar (fructose) amount in the apple and may pick in late October and they will be juicy then. I blend with Bramley for acid correction and Tremlets, Harrys Master and other for bitter sweet and tannins etc. About 20% of my juice comes from Russet.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'm not an expert, but I don't agree with the above

I doubt Damsonite will give you much of an argument the thread was posted in 2011 and his last log in was 2012 -

 

[SMP Brewery]

I doubt Damsonite will give you much of an argument the thread was posted in 2011 and his last log in was 2012 -

Maybe not, but I found it an interesting read