Russel Brand accused of rape.

[Bosch]

Probably "I am not a rapist and it's a conspiracy from the mainstream media. "

Who gives a fig what he says.
I would be more interested in what the victims said and if there more accusations.

 

[Bosch]

On a forum I frequent, with far more female members than here, a lot of members are sharing stories of sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape.

Really puts in perspective what women have to put up with and how ignorant some men are

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It would appear some people have decided Brand is quilty before he even has his day in court, as I said earlier time will tell.

 

[Bosch]

On 1% of rape allegations in the UK lead to a conviction.

https://www.city.ac.uk/news-and-eve...why-englands-justice-system-continues-to-fail

 

[MickDundee]

It would appear some people have decided Brand is quilty before he even has his day in court, as I said earlier time will tell.

A major U.K. newspaper has reported detailed allegations, which they would be forced to retract if they weren't printed on sound legal footing.

If Russell Brand doesn't sue them to force a retraction, then it’s not unreasonable to assume that there's truth in them, regardless of whether he ends up in court on criminal charges.

Those text messages that have been published are very specific, and both the documentary and the newspaper article have verified that they have come from that phone. She tells him “when a girl says NO she means no”. His response to her is to say “I’m embarrassed by my behaviour”, not an apology that he thought there was consent, that isn’t even mentioned.

 

[Leon103]

It would appear some people have decided Brand is quilty before he even has his day in court, as I said earlier time will tell.

No,.some people disagree with the old school approach to these things. Whatever happened the odds are in his favour, and unfortunately with a decent bank balance he is able to hire the best legal time, whilst poor victims have to rely on a super stretched legal system.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No,.some people disagree with the old school approach to these things.

You obviously didn't listen to the 5 Live phone in.

 

[Bosch]

Listened to this on the way to work this morning,
horrifying to hear the women talking about what happened to them. Especially the victim who was 16 years old at the time while he was in his 30's

 

[Leon103]

You obviously didn't listen to the 5 Live phone in.

Couldn't think of anything worse.

I got my words mixed up- I meant your old fashion approach

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So you don't believe people should be considered innocent until proved guilty in cases where there is doubt.

 

[DCBC]

What's really, really important here is that women (and girls, can't believe we are still living in a world where I have to type this) do know that allegations have been made and that people are taking them seriously. It doesn't matter how many years after the fact it was - if only one woman comes forward and makes a genuine allegation, it's extremely likely that they won't get anywhere with it. They will likely get hounded and destroyed by the famous person and their acolytes. That's how the power imbalance works, and this is precisely how predators get away with their actions for so long. There is no other way of making this happen than for credible allegations to be publicised.

Victims need to know that they are not alone - that they are not going to be ignored, gaslit, shut down or have their lives destroyed by making allegations of sexual crimes. For many, if not most, it's this knowledge that helps them get the justice they deserve.

So it's not "trial by media", unless a particular outlet makes mistakes with the reporting, in which case they leave themselves open to legal action, which has been successfully brought on many occasions in the past. When wrongful or vexatious claims are made, they are usually forgotten about, and usually net the falsely accused a fair sum of money in recompense. Do any of us think of Cliff Richard as a paedophile despite his house being searched as part of Yew Tree? No, despite it being all over the news at the time, because the allegation was proven to be false, and it was put to bed.

The other aspect of this silly "trial by media" argument is that the accused can use it as a way to argue that they won't get a fair trial, especially in the case of blatant self promoters like Brand who (whether he turns out to be guilty or not) can get his argument out to millions of people on a daily basis, not the mention the coverage of newspapers and TV. How easy would it be for his lawyers to argue that it was impossible for a trial to be fair because of the impossibility of forming a jury which is not compromised in some way by exposure to the story?

Finally, how many famous men are there? How many famous people in general (though the VAST majority of sexual criminals are men)? How many have even been accused of sex crimes, let alone had their reputation significantly impacted or been convicted? (Some) people love to argue that it's too easy to persecute men by making false claims, and this does happen - extremely rarely- , but the risk to the woman reputationally, legally and in the eye of the public are almost as significant should such allegations be proven false, or at least not sufficient as evidence. It turns out that there aren't legions of bitter, vindictive women desperate to bring down those poor plucky men who had the barefaced gall to try to make something of themselves after all.

Sensible, sober media coverage is vital to ensure that victims' voices are heard and that wrongdoers don't escape justice (though, let's be honest, most still do). Sensationalist, salacious media coverage is admittedly a problem and damaging to the accused and the accusers alike. Though, let's be honest, most of the problems in society, especially in recent years, have been driven by sensationalist, salacious media agendas. The people criticising the newspapers most likely to engage in the mud slinging (especially the S*n and Daily Mail) I have noticed, tend to be the people whose views on society conform most closely to that the agenda pushed by these publications the rest of the time. Which is interesting.

 

[MickDundee]

So you don't believe people should be considered innocent until proved guilty in cases where there is doubt.

Basically, rape cases are difficult to prove “beyond reasonable doubt” because in the vast majority of cases there are only 2 people involved. Only 2% of rapes reported to police result in a charge, and on average it takes more than 2 years for these cases to reach court.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

 

[Brewnaldo]

Basically, rape cases are difficult to prove “beyond reasonable doubt” because in the vast majority of cases there are only 2 people involved. Only 2% of rapes reported to police result in a charge, and on average it takes more than 2 years for these cases to reach court.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

Then you get civil cases like the horrible little beast David Goodwillie, judged by a proper judge who was highly qualified in such matters to have been an unreliable witness and a liar from the word go. Verdict.... Rapist. Swiftly followed by howls of "but its not a proper court!!!!!" From people who haven't even bothered to do the slightest research into what civil court entails.

Only a criminal conviction by a jury of their peers seems to be enough for some folk...... In a very narrow selection of circumstances of course.

However, the Venn diagram of these types, and those who hate Meghan Markle and want to sToP tHe BoAtS!!!!! Would almost certainly be a perfect circle

 

[Rodcx500z]

All these famous predators hide behind charitable work giving the public a squeaky clean image Saville and Harris being the stand outs, then there are the Weinsteins who use their position to be devious. the world of entertainment is full of deviant wierdo's there are that many thats why they get away with it for so long abit like doctors and the like

 

[LeeH]

Trial by media, just ask Kevin Spacey how that worked out.

 

[DCBC]

Trial by media, just ask Kevin Spacey how that worked out.

Despite being both "tried by the media" and tried in the courts he was still found technically innocent of any crime? Seems like it worked out pretty well for him. It's almost as if trial by media didn't prejudice him. Well huh.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Innocent until proven guilty​

• By Dom Watts

What is the concept of innocent until proven guilty ?​

The concept of innocent until proven guilty dates back to ancient Roman law. It is a cornerstone of the justice system in many countries around the world. The principle is based on the idea that an individual is presumed innocent until the prosecution proves otherwise. This principle is essential because it protects the rights of the accused and ensures that justice is served.

The Human Rights Act 1998​

The Human Rights Act 1998 is a piece of legislation in the United Kingdom that incorporates the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law. The act is intended to protect the rights and freedoms of individuals in the UK. One of the most important rights protected by the Human Rights Act 1998 is the right to a fair trial.

The right to a fair trial includes the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. This means that the prosecution must prove the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt. The right to a fair trial also includes the right to legal representation, the right to examine witnesses, and the right to a public trial.

Trial by media​

The issue of trial by media has become increasingly prevalent in recent years. Trial by media refers to the situation where an individual is tried and convicted in the court of public opinion before they have had a chance to defend themselves in a court of law. This situation is often exacerbated by sensationalist media coverage and the use of social media.

Trial by media can have a significant impact on the accused, including damage to their reputation and public humiliation. In some cases, trial by media can even lead to the denial of a fair trial.

Examples of trial by media​

One example of trial by media occurred in the case of Amanda Knox, an American student who was accused of murdering her roommate in Italy in 2007. The case received extensive media coverage, with many media outlets portraying Knox as guilty before the trial even began. Knox was eventually acquitted, but the media coverage had a significant impact on her reputation.

Another example of trial by media occurred in the case of Barry George, who was accused of murdering British television presenter Jill Dando in 1999. The media coverage of the case was highly sensationalized, and George was portrayed as guilty before the trial even began. George was eventually acquitted, but the media coverage had a lasting impact on his reputation.

Conclusion​

In conclusion, the principle of innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental aspect of the justice system in many countries around the world. It is essential to protect the rights of the accused and ensure that justice is served.

The issue of trial by media must be addressed to ensure that individuals are not unfairly tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. The media has a responsibility to report fairly and objectively on legal proceedings, and individuals have the right to a fair trial, including the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

https://ministryofinjustice.co.uk/innocent-until-proven-guilty/

 

[LeeH]

Despite being both "tried by the media" and tried in the courts he was still found technically innocent of any crime? Seems like it worked out pretty well for him. It's almost as if trial by media didn't prejudice him. Well huh.

He was found not guilty of the crimes he was accused of.

His career and reputation hurt, unknown mental trauma, how did that work out well?

And on a selfish note, ruined the last season of some of the best TV ever made.

 

[DCBC]

He was found not guilty of the crimes he was accused of.

His career and reputation hurt, unknown mental trauma, how did that work out well?

And on a selfish note, ruined the last season of some of the best TV ever made.

Depends whether you believe he is:

An honest, innocent man who has been hauled over the coals by malicious liars; or

Whether you think that on balance he was probably extremely relieved as the very small number of accusations made against him which the prosecution felt actually capable of resulting in a successful conviction, out of the dozens made against him in the past decades, did not manage to clear the bar required for a jury to convict.

To me there just more and more evidence to show how incredibly easy for abusers (in general, I am not calling Spacey an abuser since he was found not guilty) to get away with it, and how incredibly difficult it is for victims (in general, legally Spacey doesn't have any) to do anything about it.

And

I pray to my secular god that neither of us, or any of our loved ones, ever have to go through what the victims of sexual predation have to go through, because justice won't be swift and it won't be just.

 

[Leon103]

So you don't believe people should be considered innocent until proved guilty in cases where there is doubt.

I didn't say that.
It was directed at your comment that he was at the height of his fame so didn't need to rape women.