Real Wort Starters

[MyQul]

I've started to make starters from real wort. Mainly because it's so much cheaper. Doing some maths (UH-OH!) having bought my sack of grain for £20 a 1L real wort starter cost me 25p. Previously I was using H&B malt extract for starters. This 2.99 for 454g so works out at 85p for a 1L starter. If I use Wilko DME at £4.50 for 500ml it works out at 90p for a 1L starter.

I make my starters like a 1L batch of beer. Mash, sparge and boil the grain. But it takes me less than an hour do do. I do a 30 mash in my oven (there's only 200g of grain so just use a small pot, put in the oven at 65C). I could probably lessen this time as conversion is said to be complete in ten minutes or so. I then do a little dunk sparge. Then do a 2 minute boil. Eh? 2 mins you might be thinking. But remember, for a starter the boil is only to sanitise, there are no hops added to isomerise, 2 mins is more than enough to sanitise it. I read something on Brulosophy a while back about boiling starters only for a short time and that 15 mins isnt need and have been doing this with my (LME) starter for quite a while now with no ill effect.

Some people make real wort starters by running of a litre or two off from their first running. When I used to make 23L batches I'd portion off a litre or two before pitching the yeast, to use as the starter for my next brew (I'd freeze this until I needed it). But doing either of these isnt really an option for small batch brewing such as I do as it's such a large part of the brew length. So I've started making a starter from stratch

Anyone else use real wort starters?

 

[Leon103]

I rather save an hour of my time and spend the little extra on dme. Nice idea though

 

[MyQul]

I rather save an hour of my time and spend the little extra on dme. Nice idea though

I say an hour, but as with actual brewing, most of that hours is waiting around e.g. The 30 minute mash. You could easily be doing something else. You're probably actually only doing 'something' for about 15 mins

However, I do agree, buying DME is much easier. But if you've not got the roubles (or are just tight) for the DME/LME this is a much cheaper way to do starters

 

[BeerCat]

I don't often use spray malt either. Sometimes i do a 3rd sparge and boil that up outside until i get the right OG. Also poured all the trub into a 2l jugs and decanted off the wort. Boiled again for 5mins and used that. Or i add some extra malt and take some out of the 1st runnings. I have made no boil starters before as well.

 

[LeeH]

Great info but I doubt I would ever take the time to same a quid or 2.

 

[MyQul]

I don't often use spray malt either. Sometimes i do a 3rd sparge and boil that up outside until i get the right OG. Also poured all the trub into a 2l jugs and decanted off the wort. Boiled again for 5mins and used that. Or i add some extra malt and take some out of the 1st runnings. I have made no boil starters before as well.

Some interesting idea's their BC

 

[BeerCat]

I have also saved a few liters in a bottle in the fridge before when i have had too much wort to fill my cube. Spray malt is convenient though especially if you can boil it in a flask. As i have a 5l flask i should really hop the starter and bottle the decanted wort but never had the time to try it yet.

 

[Honk]

Was thinking of saving a couple litres in the freezer from my next brew, but like your idea better. I've got a pack of dme to use up but find it horrible stuff to store and use once opened.

 

[Drunkula]

I've got a pack of dme to use up but find it horrible stuff to store and use once opened.

I had to package 25kg of the stuff up into 500g and kilo bags. It was an absolute horror show. I started with Ikea freezer bags and as soon as any of the dust got into the crease things where they sealed you basically had to start again because the moisture in the air would get to it and turn it into clag and it just wouldn't seal. This was pre Aldi vacuum sealer. I use it on normal bags just to heat seal them.

I'd do the same as Mike if I didn't have so much of the stuff. I started using grain to add to the tons of beer kits I had as soon as I got some because it's a damn site cheaper than buying spraymalt.

 

[chthon]

You could also adjust your recipe to take wort off your brew before racking it into the fermentation vessel, then diluting to 1.040 SG and freezing it in different volumes.

 

[Honk]

I've started to make starters from real wort. .......

Anyone else use real wort starters?

Was going to make a starter for lager yeast then thought, why not take this a stage further and do a stovetop brew this Friday (when I have the house to myself) just a demijon full then use that as a starter the following weekend when i do the main batch.

 

[MyQul]

Was going to make a starter for lager yeast then thought, why not take this a stage further and do a stovetop brew this Friday (when I have the house to myself) just a demijon full then use that as a starter the following weekend when i do the main batch.

I've heard about people doing this for big beers. Make a small batch/beer then harvest all the yeast for the big beer

 

[ceejam]

Why not make 5L and freeze it in 1L batches?

 

[MyQul]

Why not make 5L and freeze it in 1L batches?

Actually that's a very good idea. I might just do that :hat:

 

[matt76]

As a newbie, no, never tried this. But having just made AG#4 which is currently bubbling away like mad I'm tempted to crack oven the FV and harvest some yeast from the krausen while I have the opportunity (or else wait until bottling and use the trub).

If I understand correctly i can store the dormant yeast in the fridge for a while - I only need the starter (be it real wort or DME) when i come to reactivate the yeast prior to pitching - right?

Since I'm doing AG I don't have any DME but i do have a few kg of spare Maris Otter...

Part of me thinks why not have a go at this yeast ranching lark as I'm growing my skills. Cost isn't a driver for me but it hasn't escaped my attention that yeast (well, my preferred Wyeast at any rate) and hops add a lot more to the cost than the grain - or maybe it's just a sign I'm getting old!

 

[MyQul]

As a newbie, no, never tried this. But having just made AG#4 which is currently bubbling away like mad I'm tempted to crack oven the FV and harvest some yeast from the krausen while I have the opportunity (or else wait until bottling and use the trub).

If I understand correctly i can store the dormant yeast in the fridge for a while - I only need the starter (be it real wort or DME) when i come to reactivate the yeast prior to pitching - right?

Since I'm doing AG I don't have any DME but i do have a few kg of spare Maris Otter...

Part of me thinks why not have a go at this yeast ranching lark as I'm growing my skills. Cost isn't a driver for me but it hasn't escaped my attention that yeast (well, my preferred Wyeast at any rate) and hops add a lot more to the cost than the grain - or maybe it's just a sign I'm getting old!

I store yeast in the fridge for months.

My prefered technique is to harvest the slurry from the bottom of a brew. Then keep it in the fridge in a jar. Then whenever I need yeast for a brew I just put a cuople teaspoonfuls into a starter from the jar. In this way the jar of slurry gives me months worth of starters

 

[matt76]

I store yeast in the fridge for months.

My prefered technique is to harvest the slurry from the bottom of a brew. Then keep it in the fridge in a jar. Then whenever I need yeast for a brew I just put a cuople teaspoonfuls into a starter from the jar. In this way the jar of slurry gives me months worth of starters

Question on this @MyQul - are you literally just chucking the slurry in a sanitised jar and storing it, or in practice do you rinse it to separate the yeast from the old hop & grain material and whatever else might be in there?

Got a couple of brews on the go at the moment with different yeasts so would like to try this (not to mention yeast harvested from bottles I've got in the fridge that I plan to grow!)

 

[MyQul]

Question on this @MyQul - are you literally just chucking the slurry in a sanitised jar and storing it, or in practice do you rinse it to separate the yeast from the old hop & grain material and whatever else might be in there?

Got a couple of brews on the go at the moment with different yeasts so would like to try this (not to mention yeast harvested from bottles I've got in the fridge that I plan to grow!)

Just tip it straight out the FV (once the beer is racked off) and into the jar. I never rinse yeast.

 

[matt76]

I had a go at this earlier today - I brew AG anyway so I've got plenty of grain knocking about and I can't be bothered to go and by DME so I figured why not...

It is really easy, simpler than normal as you've got a load less water to heat up and cool down after. I can see how it could be done in under an hour.

I've had some slurry in the fridge from a brew I bottled a couple of weeks ago... (similar looking to what @ceejam posted here).....

- I have my doubts as it's quite dark from all crud I get in the bottom of my FV's but maybe there's some yeast in there somewhere... nevertheless, there does seem to be a paler layer forming in the bottles (see pic in next post) so maybe it's yeast, we'll see.....

Nothing to lose as this is just an experiment/practice-go to see if I can do it - if so then I've expanded my skills, plus I've got some other "good" /purer yeast samples in the fridge I can play with... Oh god, I've turned into @MyQul haven't I.....

 

[matt76]