Pump recommendation

[DeepThought]

Hi all

Looking for an inexpensive recirculating pump to attach to a Klarstein Maischfest. I’m pretty clueless at this stage so would appreciate any advice you can give.

Would something like this fit the bill and be able to handle mash out temperatures?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3m-350L-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Appreciate it says 60 degrees but I’m assuming there’s some tolerances in there.


Thanks

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Hi DT

Pumps and I have never really got on

This is a submersible pump - the point about recirculating the mash is that you want the wort to filter through the grain bed as many times as possible - the husks of the grain contain an enzyme that breaks the starch down into sugar, passing the wort through many times therefore increases the amount of sugar you can extract i.e. mash efficiency

I have not seen anyone use a submersible pump before because it will easily become clogged with grain, also how would you feed the wort back to the top?

External pumps wouldn't become clogged with grain but pose a different problem, loss of temperature as the wort is pumped outside the mash tun

Not sure how long you have been doing ag

 

[DeepThought]

Hi DT

Pumps and I have never really got on

This is a submersible pump - the point about recirculating the mash is that you want the wort to filter through the grain bed as many times as possible - the husks of the grain contain an enzyme that breaks the starch down into sugar, passing the wort through many times therefore increases the amount of sugar you can extract i.e. mash efficiency

I have not seen anyone use a submersible pump before because it will easily become clogged with grain, also how would you feed the wort back to the top?

External pumps wouldn't become clogged with grain but pose a different problem, loss of temperature as the wort is pumped outside the mash tun

Not sure how long you have been doing ag

I assumed it was an external pump, or at least could be used as one as there’s an inlet and outlet pipe on it (going by the picture at least anyway). This was just the cheapest thing on ebay that looked vaguely suitable but I’m open to suggestions.

For what it’s worth I haven’t been doing AG at all… yet, just trying to get my kit together.

 

[matt76]

Hi all

Looking for an inexpensive recirculating pump to attach to a Klarstein Maischfest. I’m pretty clueless at this stage so would appreciate any advice you can give.

Would something like this fit the bill and be able to handle mash out temperatures?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3m-350L-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Appreciate it says 60 degrees but I’m assuming there’s some tolerances in there.


Thanks

Have a read through this thread:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/klarstein-maischfest-and-mashing.92415/
I rigged up a pump to my Maischfest earlier this year - all dialled in now and I haven't looked back.

Give me a prod and I'll find an example link which pump I got off eBay - not hard to find, about £25 from loads of sellers, rated to 100degC+ iirc.

As you'll read in that thread, there are a few cost effective pump options.

You'll also need a power supply. And I highly recommend a switch!

You may or may not need a valve to control the flow - I bought one but never used it, fine without on my setup.

You'll need silicone hoses, not PVC (read that thread to find out why!)

 

[DeepThought]

Have a read through this thread:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/klarstein-maischfest-and-mashing.92415/
I rigged up a pump to my Maischfest earlier this year - all dialled in now and I haven't looked back.

Give me a prod and I'll find an example link which pump I got off eBay - not hard to find, about £25 from loads of sellers, rated to 100degC+ iirc.

As you'll read in that thread, there are a few cost effective pump options.

You'll also need a power supply. And I highly recommend a switch!

You may or may not need a valve to control the flow - I bought one but never used it, fine without on my setup.

You'll need silicone hoses, not PVC (read that thread to find out why!)

Sounds like you might be describing this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Head-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Does the hearing aid beige look familiar?

If so I’d probably rig it up with something like this for a bit of flow control:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-6V-12...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
The Maischfest is currently on a slow boat from Germany so I do at least have time to tinker, and thankfully I know a bit more about electronics than I do brewing.

 

[matt76]

Sounds like you might be describing this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Head-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Does the hearing aid beige look familiar?

If so I’d probably rig it up with something like this for a bit of flow control:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-6V-12...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
The Maischfest is currently on a slow boat from Germany so I do at least have time to tinker, and thankfully I know a bit more about electronics than I do brewing.

I think some of the others went for that pump but I can't say if it's same, better or worse then this one I got in the end:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-DC12...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
I recommend you get the one with a DC connector (I didn't, but it would have been easier in hindsight).

I would also get an inline switch something like this, makes life easier:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Stri...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Regarding the PWM controller - I have that exact one but it doesn't work with my pump - don't know why, despite being a technical guy electronics are my Kryptonite!

 

[CraigP79]

Can anyone help I’m trying to take the back of my fosters pump I’ve took the 3 screws out but can’t remove case

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I’ve been using those cheap “beige” 12v hot water pumps for ages - they are excellent and really cheap if you shop around and don’t mind waiting for delivery. I also have one of the black ones which seems to be slightly more powerful. The fittings on them are 1/2” BSP so they are very easy to plumb in.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Regarding the PWM controller - I have that exact one but it doesn't work with my pump - don't know why, despite being a technical guy electronics are my Kryptonite!

You can’t really use a PWM controller with this kind of brushless pump because they have internal drive electronics that need a constant supply voltage.
If you need to reduce the speed then you *can* reduce the voltage a bit, but I don’t recommend it because it reduces the power of the pump a lot and makes it more liable to clog up. Consider instead reducing the flow rate by connecting a bypass valve across the pump: this is better than putting a valve in series as that just labours the pump.

 

[DeepThought]

I went for the black one in the end, predominately because the DC connector makes for much easier wiring than a JST connector of unspecified quality, and the price difference was negligible on eBay.

For anyone visiting this thread from the future, the beige ones are half the eBay price on AliExpress. Would have gone with them but they’re currently in the dog house over a shoddy drone they sold me

 

[stripeyjoe]

I've got one of the beige 12v solar jobbies, perfectly adequate though possibly not powerful enough for a whirlpool. I managed to pick up a used Chugger pump for a reasonable price and that is more powerful though not as much as the price difference, the best thing is it's 240v so no additional PSU. Am thinking of using the solar pump to recirculate cooling water from a rain butt to save water when using my immersion chiller.

 

[crowcrow]

Let me know how you get on with the pump. Since wrapping my Klarstein in a camping mat and a couple of towels it holds the temp perfectly and I don't even jug these days - I personally think it is the lack of insulation and all my jugging/stirring and poking around that caused my temp to drop.

I'm still waiting to be sold in the value of adding a pump (as I like to keep things simple and cheap) but as I'm also addicted to buying junk of ebay and Aliexpress, I am forever tempted, I just need to know how it will make my beer better!

 

[Buffers brewery]

I have used the cheap beige eBay pumps for a couple of years now. You (I) have to be careful how I store them as I discovered they grow black mould very easily even if you give them a good post-brew clean but store them wet. I strip mine down to the innerds and air dry and assemble them just before brew day.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Since wrapping my Klarstein in a camping mat and a couple of towels it holds the temp perfectly and I don't even jug these days

That's good to hear. FWIW I do find that recirculating makes a big improvement to my mash efficiency though.
When it comes to maintaining (and changing) temperature, I actually recirculate via my counterflow 'chiller' while pumping heated water through the other direction

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I have used the cheap beige eBay pumps for a couple of years now. You (I) have to be careful how I store them as I discovered they grow black mould very easily even if you give them a good post-brew clean but store them wet. I strip mine down so the innerds can air dry and assemble them just before brew day.

Ooh that's a bit scary... I might take to running a bit of chem-san through them after use, and then dry in a low oven

 

[matt76]

I'm still waiting to be sold in the value of adding a pump

OK, so what have I found in the ~6 months I've been using mine?

Well temperature still fluctuates of course, though not at the same rate as without - can't remember now if it fluctuates faster or slower! I think temperature stays more constant as I don't have to keep removing the lid to stir the mash.

I haven't measured it but I would expect mash temperature to be more uniform through the grain bed - certainly above and below the grain where I have measured it's the same.

The two main benefits I've seen are firstly that I get less crud in the bottom of the kettle which means more clear wort in the FV, about 5-10% more in a 10-12L batch.

Secondly efficiency is up a few percentage points - that means I've reduced my typical grist by 500g to keep the same OG in my regular beers.

Is the finished beer significantly better? Not really, but it's a few small steps in the direction of improved consistency and maybe slightly better clarity which has always been an issue for me.

I'm happy with these incremental improvements and feel it was definitely worthwhile tinkering, but your mileage may vary!

 

[matt76]

You can’t really use a PWM controller with this kind of brushless pump because they have internal drive electronics that need a constant supply voltage.
If you need to reduce the speed then you *can* reduce the voltage a bit, but I don’t recommend it because it reduces the power of the pump a lot and makes it more liable to clog up. Consider instead reducing the flow rate by connecting a bypass valve across the pump: this is better than putting a valve in series as that just labours the pump.

Thanks for the explanation about the electronics part, that makes sense

Not sure I agree with you about needing a bypass though - throttling the flow with a valve is no different to asking the pump to pump up to an outlet at a much higher level. As long as you're not operating with the valve virtually shut I'd expect the pump to take it all in it's stride.

But if you're needing to do anything to adjust flow rate that much it really just means your pump is the wrong spec for the job.

Initially with my double grain bag setup I was in danger of the bottom of the kettle running dry, but now with a single bag it's fine and I can just set & forget the pump and leave it to run at full tilt

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

As long as you're not operating with the valve virtually shut I'd expect the pump to take it all in it's stride.

I know what you mean; but with an electronically controlled pump it just ‘tries harder’ and gets hot :-)

 

[matt76]

I know what you mean; but with an electronically controlled pump it just ‘tries harder’ and gets hot :-)

DAMN YOU ELECTRONICS! WHY MUST YOU ALWAYS TAUNT ME SO!

 

[Buffers brewery]

I’ve been using a model railway controller with my beige pumps to control speed with no problems. Could be something to do with the frequency as the model train controllers have to move small locos smoothly at slow speed.