Pub guide: Good riddance to 'bad pubs'

[Chippy_Tea]

A lot of pubs in my area have closed in recent years, i am not sure if it is because of indifferent drink (see below) but because people don't go out as much as they used to and would rather drink at home.


Up to 4,000 pubs will close in the next year, but they are ones "stuck in the 1980s" offering customers indifferent drink and food, a new guide suggests.

29 August 2013 Last updated at 08:41 BST

Up to 4,000 pubs will close in the next year, but they are ones "stuck in the 1980s" offering customers indifferent drink and food, a new guide suggests.

The Good Pub Guide argues it is high time "bad pubs" went out of business, giving visionary and energetic licensees a chance to open new ones.

Dawn Hopkins, landlady of two pubs in Norwich, told the Today programme's John Humphrys when there were "so many things against us" in the pub industry, she was surprised that the guide would publish something defamatory.

Fiona Stapley, co-editor of the Good Pub Guide, said there was no room for bad pubs.

First broadcast on BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Thursday 29 August 2013.

 

[andybrew]

but these pubs aren't being replaced by better pub there all turning into care homes and restaurants and soon a local will be a rarity

 

[calumscott]

i am not sure if it is because of indifferent drink

Not JUST indifferent drink. Indifferent drink, indifferent food, indifferent staff, indifferent decor, indifferent pub.

I live in a village of just over 2000 people and we have 4 healthy pubs. All different...

...'nuff sed.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think a lot of the problem is people don't drink the same as they used to 15 - 20 years ago, in our town you couldn't move for people out enjoying themselves on a Friday and Saturday night, the main pubs were packed to the doors, i drive through town now and the pubs are quiet.
Banning people standing outside with a pint/bottle was another nail in the coffin and then any time drinking was introduced, no last orders meant no one moved on to the clubs and they closed, people now drink at home and go out at 10pm half ******, not a wonder the pubs are struggling.

 

[oldbloke]

I know of several good pubs that have gone, locally.
Some, the landlords gave up due to the rents etc the breweries were charging

 

[calumscott]

It's true that there are indeed other pressures on pubs but the fundamentals remain - the ones that are still offering what the local clientèle want and have moved with the times and that clientèle are the ones that are still thriving.

Be it great pub food and a relaxed atmosphere or (my favourite in the village) great beer, no food, no telly and lots of banter - if it works for the people there then the pub stays open. I think that a good number of these closures are the chains involved in the "race to the bottom" - highest volume of ****, low margin beer and high rents for the brewery...

 

[godfrey]

we don't have a pub in our town
there were 2 but both closed down

I think the smoking ban can also take some of the blame
nobody wants to stand outside in the rain to have a fag with their pint
not that really bothers me, but the smoking ban changed the pub forever

 

[oldbloke]

3 we nearly lost coz the brewery jacked it in after they were flooded for the 3rd time in 3 years (maybe 4 years). One of them was where I had my wedding reception. All good pubs. 1 is (hopefully) soon to be the subject of a customer buyout, 1 has been bought by a small indie pub chain, not sure about the 3rd but I think the brewery relented.
Juts hoping the flood defence works actually work. Trouble is in our part of the valley, the defences are designed to stop the river and/or canal getting out, where we live the real trouble is the water off the hillsides not being able to get to the river/canal fast enough

 

[h_doody]

The Good Pub Guide is a joke anyway! Pubs actually have to pay to get put in.

 

[morethanworts]

we don't have a pub in our town
there were 2 but both closed down

I think the smoking ban can also take some of the blame
nobody wants to stand outside in the rain to have a fag with their pint
not that really bothers me, but the smoking ban changed the pub forever

Can't believe 6 posts went by with no mention of the Smoking Ban before this! The small pubs that I see closed are exactly the type that would have yellow fingered regulars propping up the bar. As a non smoking real ale lover, it was really horrid to come home stinking of smoke.

Freedom to vs freedom from... I'll always have slight sympathy with the other camp, but I'm sure a lot of the pubs on the edge must have needed the folk for whom a chat and a pint went hand in hand with a cigarette.

 

[sam.k]

my local (best pint of 6x in the south of England) has no pool table, is run by a chef (sunday dindins in there are amazing) and doesn't show any sport.
the pub is thriving due to a few things.
the beer is amazing, the food is amazing, the bar staff are amazing and the butcher who supplies the meat draw is amazing (no names :whistle: )

the pub I go watch football in is a bit more grimy, beer is still good but the pub is different.

its a shame to see them close but I have to say, most in our area that have gone where right sh*t holes.

 

[graysalchemy]

Most of the large Pubco's are up S*t creek without a paddle. And they account for the majority of UK pubs.

When they were set up in the 90's they were financed in the city to the tune of Billions of pounds. Since then merges have added billions to the loans and they simply had to get the money back. Simple franchise them to budding 'landlords' charge them rent and make them buy everything through you. This was the model that a lot of the estates were run under. As the pub makes more money and increases in turnover you incrementally increase the rent. Fine whilst everyone was going in pubs. But then the smoking ban was introduced and the recession hit. Landlords couldn't pay bills and walked away from pubs, no one wanted to take them over because of all the bad press about Pubco's.

In the meantime these pubco's have to service their massive debts. The better pubs are taken into the managed estate and managed by the pubco's but the rest are closed lie empty waiting to be sold.

The sad thing is that many of the pubs being sold will never re open as pubs as they are converted to mini supermarkets, offices and shops and I believe some have covenants on them stopping them from being opened as pubs.

So really it was in many cases the fault lies in how the Pubco's were allowed to operate and also the fact that they were set up in the first place. (The Supply of Beer (Tied Estate) Order 1989). The smoking ban and recession really was the final nail in the box. Before this recession pubs had always be thought of as recession proof as people always traditionally drank in hard economic times.

 

[iceo]

its sad to see good pubs go. i worked in a kitchen of one of my locals (gone now) it was a small pub but on a saturday and sunday we had 60-80 cover each day for food. they was making profit. brewery sold it from under the landlord and it now has 3 houses on the site. :evil:

i stopped using a lot of the pubs when the smoking ban came in. i dont like chain pubs i dont live in a big town but there has to be about 20 pubs within a 3 miles of me and there is one 400 yards as the crow flyes but dont drink in there as it stuck in a time warp (dark wood, green and peach walls in the pool room and cream wood chip in the main bar :sick: ) we mainly use pubs in the village up the road as the the food is good.

all this said its over 2 year since i had a night on the town with the boys. the cost of one night out would keep me in homebrew for months :grin:

 

[oz11]

Most of the large Pubco's are up S*t creek without a paddle. And they account for the majority of UK pubs.

When they were set up in the 90's they were financed in the city to the tune of Billions of pounds. Since then merges have added billions to the loans and they simply had to get the money back. Simple franchise them to budding 'landlords' charge them rent and make them buy everything through you. This was the model that a lot of the estates were run under. As the pub makes more money and increases in turnover you incrementally increase the rent. Fine whilst everyone was going in pubs. But then the smoking ban was introduced and the recession hit. Landlords couldn't pay bills and walked away from pubs, no one wanted to take them over because of all the bad press about Pubco's.

In the meantime these pubco's have to service their massive debts. The better pubs are taken into the managed estate and managed by the pubco's but the rest are closed lie empty waiting to be sold.

The sad thing is that many of the pubs being sold will never re open as pubs as they are converted to mini supermarkets, offices and shops and I believe some have covenants on them stopping them from being opened as pubs.

So really it was in many cases the fault lies in how the Pubco's were allowed to operate and also the fact that they were set up in the first place. (The Supply of Beer (Tied Estate) Order 1989). The smoking ban and recession really was the final nail in the box. Before this recession pubs had always be thought of as recession proof as people always traditionally drank in hard economic times.

Summed up perfectly.

 

[Pakman]

My favourite local is an ex-fizz pub. Closed down due to unusual goings on in the function room just before the landlord legged it. Sat empty for months. Then a local pub Co leased it on a peppercorn rent on the condition that they would buy it from the owners if they made it work. Installed real ale, real cider, removed the pool table and jukebox and replaced them with cards, dominoes and a pleasant atmosphere. Since then they've bought it, put in an excellent landlord and increased the ales to 7, 2 locales and all the rest from all over the country. Installed a one barrel brewery out the back and it's a little gold mine now :thumb:
Graham

 

[RichardN00]

Someone once said "there are no such thing as bad pubs - only bad landlords ( and landladies)"

 

[mickthetrick]

we had 3 pubs and a working mens club in our village 10 years back. there is just the club now, which i don't go in. the beers **** and its run by dinosaurs.
1st pub is now 3 houses, 2nd is now getting converted to flats and the 3rd mysteriously took fire and was destroyed theres a big care home now built where it stood.
smoking ban absolutely killed the pubs here plus the high unemployment. people just couldn't afford it no more.
only good thing is my wife and a number of locals have employment in the care home(which employs more people that the bars ever did) but its a shame the way things have went.

 

[calumscott]

Someone once said "there are no such thing as bad pubs - only bad landlords ( and landladies)"

There are those for sure, however with the advent of major pubcos there are also bad ones of those which will spoil (IMO) pubs regardless of who manages them.

 

[dennisking]

Re the smoking ban, we had a great holiday touring Ireland about 3 years after they bought in the smoking ban and found their pubs mainly heaving. This was before the recession mind.

 

[redhousebrewing]

IME Pubs need to be clear on having a clear, competitive & in demand offering - if they don't then they are sc***ed.
I live in a village of ~2000 with 7 pubs and the rules for success seem to play out clearly.
3 are on the canal & cycle path, of these one has mooring space and a large field that Caravan Club and various Motor Clubs use, it does good basic pub food, real ales etc. Second has live music, sky sports & is a good drinking pub, the third is small but good & friendly.
Of the 4 away from the canal, 3 have well established strengths gastro pub with great food and drinks; drinking pub with large field for caravan events; great steaks, beers & wines and the last is reinventing itself again having been the top Gastro pub in Warwickshire but standards fell and then its changed hands a couple of times (brewery owned) - hopefully the new landlord can establish their offering.

Oh - and they all collaborate to run an annual beer festival which allows sampling a huge range of cask ales over a long weekend and even larger numbers of visitors which providing it continues to be well organised is a win for all!

On the smoking ban I think its been a double edged sword as others have suggested above.