Prodigal brewer - some questions...

[Llamaman]

Hi all

I’m thinking of returning to home brewing after an absence of over a decade but have some queries I hope you folks can help with. I’ll explain the reasoning for my questions (hence my rambling tome), but the impatient can skip to the end where I’ll summarise…


Right, first up is batch size. I don’t have room for the full 5 gallon brews in 6.5g bucket brews I used to do – I’m limited to one shelf in a cupboard. I was looking at 1 US gallon brew kits, but I’m concerned that after losses to trub and krausen, it’ll be not much bang for buck/effort. A 2G/10L or 3G/15L bucket isn’t that much bigger in size (mostly diameter rather than height) so I might go bigger.


Which bring me to my first question – what’s a suitable amount of headroom for a brew? I note that the buckets seem to have a bit of headroom over stated capacity, but probably not enough for a primary fermentation. I assume a 10L brew in a 15L bucket would be fine, but would a 3.8L (American gallon) brew in the same bucket be too much headroom?


Second question – in small batch brewing, how do you take samples? The old trial jar and hydrometer method seems disproportionately wasteful. I thought I’d get a Brix spectrometer and use a sterilised pipette to take a sample?

Question 3 – sterilisation. I used to hate DWP and note with joy that no-rinse sanitisers are commonly available now. How long do these last once made up? Could I keep – for example – a jam jar of StarSan solution made up for sterilising my sample pipette? I assume it’s a bad idea to keep a spray bottle made up as the acid attacks plastic?


Question 4 – I see secondary fermentation is mostly out of favour (yay!). Is it OK to add other ingredients (coffee, chocolate, fruit?) to a primary fermenter or will that be sitting on trub too long? Do I need to consider a second, smaller, bucket if I go down that route?


Question 5 – bottling. I was planning on bottling from primary straight to bottle using an auto syphon (and clip!) and bottling wand, as going the bottling bucket route requires more kit and increases the risk of me oxidising the beer through stupidity. Am I being stupid, and should I just get a bottling bucket? (I suppose I could remove the tap and stack it outside the primary when not in use).


Some other info:

I was thinking of starting out very simple – using 1 can from a 2 can kit and brewing short to 10L. Then, once I’ve got my brewday and bottling technique sorted out, venturing back into extract brewing. I don’t currently foresee doing any AG brews- I don’t have time or space for the equipment.

I don’t have much space in the flat for storing conditioning beer, but I do have access to a storage unit at the end of the garden for cold conditioning. Sadly, it has no water, electricity of much headroom so is unsuitable as a brewhouse.



Questions;

1. How much headroom does a primary fermenter need?

2. How do you sample small batches?

3. How long does StarSan last once made up into solution?

4. Is it OK to add chocolate/fruit etc to primary or should I rack off?

5. Bottle bucket or fill from primary?


Thanks!

 

[Wouter]

Questions;

1. How much headroom does a primary fermenter need?

2. How do you sample small batches?

3. How long does StarSan last once made up into solution?

4. Is it OK to add chocolate/fruit etc to primary or should I rack off?

5. Bottle bucket or fill from primary?


Thanks!

1. 1/4 of the fermenter if you are using an air lock. Less if you are using a blow off tube. More for some yeasts, specifically some Belgian yeasts. Some of those bad boys can really produce a lot of krausen! Strains meant for IPA (US-05, the chico strain) generally don't have this problem and I have fermented with like 1/10th headspace without problems.

2. Through the tap I have on each of my fermentation fessles. If you are using a refractometer and don't have a tap there is a trick. You just stick a knitting needle in your solution to get a drop.

3. They say until the solution loses acidity (specifically above pH=4 if I remember corrrectly, but I would look it up). A few weeks usually, longer if you use demineralised water to make the solution.

4. Yeah that's perfectly fine. Im even inclined to say that is better because racking off oxidises the beer. But opinions are divided.

5. I always use a bottle bucket. I like to add sugar to the entire batch in order to make sure that each bottle is exactly the same.

 

[ACBEV]

1. 25%
2. Don't sample... Leave for 2 to 3 weeks.
3. A long time... I make up a bucket, all my bit and bobs in it for 2 to 4 weeks.
4. Don't know... I don't muck about with such things
5. Bottling bucket... for small batches I'd use a Kilner Drinks Dispenser with tap for bottling.

 

[-Bezza-]

5. I always use a bottle bucket. I like to add sugar to the entire batch in order to make sure that each bottle is exactly the same.

That is a personal preference though :thumb:. You can bottle directly from the primary FV, which is what I sometimes do. I would suggest getting a small 5ml syringe and diluting bottling sugars in an easily-divisible quantity of water to ensure consistent priming rates. Might be easier to get an FV with a tap, although not sure what the options are for the smaller vessels.

As for quantities, I'd personally be going for 10l brews with the space constraints. It seems a good balance between space vs effort vs having enough beer vs wastage and, as you mention, 1 can of extract is about the right amount and probably equates to one 11g sachet of dried yeast too.

 

[Llamaman]

Thanks for the replies - very helpful.

Sounds like I should start with a 15l bucket for 10l brews.

I don't have a 10l kilner dispenser already and it would be awkward to store. I'll try bottling from primary first as it's less kit and fewer steps.
I was planning on using sugar cubes for priming (less messy and more consistent than loose) but I also like the syrup approach as I could alter the concentration/amount of solution.

 

[Llamaman]

Forgot to add - I can get a bucket with a tap easily enough, but how do you then sanitise it? Or do you assume that the small contact area of the inside of the tap is unlikely to infect a fermented brew?
I assume you position the tap above where you expect the trub level to be, and carefully tilt the tub to get the last beer out?

 

[Wouter]

Forgot to add - I can get a bucket with a tap easily enough, but how do you then sanitise it? Or do you assume that the small contact area of the inside of the tap is unlikely to infect a fermented brew?
I assume you position the tap above where you expect the trub level to be, and carefully tilt the tub to get the last beer out?

Just use star san. With a spray bottle you can shoot it inside the tap.

 

[MickDundee]

Forgot to add - I can get a bucket with a tap easily enough, but how do you then sanitise it? Or do you assume that the small contact area of the inside of the tap is unlikely to infect a fermented brew?
I assume you position the tap above where you expect the trub level to be, and carefully tilt the tub to get the last beer out?

I fill a Tupperware with boiling water and dip the tap in it for a minute or 2 before sticking the bottling wand on it.

 

[GerritT]

1. How much headroom does a primary fermenter need?

2. How do you sample small batches?

3. How long does StarSan last once made up into solution?

4. Is it OK to add chocolate/fruit etc to primary or should I rack off?

5. Bottle bucket or fill from primary?

1: more than 15%. A quarter is safe imho.
2: not? I measure gravity at certain points (after cooling, after racking, before bottling), then I taste.
3: I use fresh sanitiser every time, and a kilo of Puro Oxi™ lasts me a year
4: chocolate is fat, you might not want it in primary. Fruit taste lasts better when added later. Prepare for restarting fermentation though.
5: bottle bucket, cold crash outside for a night, and Bob's your uncle (or aunt, I'm not assuming genders here)

 

[GerritT]

But, in addition: will you do extract, partial mash or all-grain? And a 15 L pot is a nice addition to the kitchen (so I convinced the missus) so that could be you bottling bucket.

 

[Llamaman]

4: chocolate is fat, you might not want it in primary.

Forgive my ignorance but why is that? Is it that the fat won't emulsify with the beer and you'll get lumps?

 

[Llamaman]

But, in addition: will you do extract, partial mash or all-grain? And a 15 L pot is a nice addition to the kitchen (so I convinced the missus) so that could be you bottling bucket.

At first, kits, then extract. Can't see me doing any mashing - my brewing will be limited to the evenings so I won't have 3 hours for a brew.
My largest pot (at present...) is a stainless steel stockpot that I measured at 7l (with a bit to spare), so any extract brews will need to be concentrated and diluted in the fermenter.
I also have an iron casserole that I suppose could be useful for steeping as it'll keep its temperature better than the steel pan, but I'm a long way off that at the moment - I want to start simple and master a technique at a time.

 

[GerritT]

Forgive my ignorance but why is that? Is it that the fat won't emulsify with the beer and you'll get lumps?

Less head possibly, and the taste would be absorbed less. A slight roasting would avoid most of that. I personally experienced that with coconut flakes in a porter. Should've roasted them first.
But my personal experience, and from advice from a professional brewer.

 

[GerritT]

At first, kits, then extract. Can't see me doing any mashing - my brewing will be limited to the evenings so I won't have 3 hours for a brew.
My largest pot (at present...) is a stainless steel stockpot that I measured at 7l (with a bit to spare), so any extract brews will need to be concentrated and diluted in the fermenter.
I also have an iron casserole that I suppose could be useful for steeping as it'll keep its temperature better than the steel pan, but I'm a long way off that at the moment - I want to start simple and master a technique at a time.

As long as the hops have enough room to whirl around for an hour, concentrated brewing should be okay.

 

[foxbat]

Forgot to add - I can get a bucket with a tap easily enough, but how do you then sanitise it?

You take it off between brews so all the parts dry out and you can clean the bit behind the back nut. You'll be left with a tap, a front o-ring and a back nut. Before use I soak these in VWP (one of the few things I still use VWP for because it's so easy to totally rinse off small items). After rinsing I attach to the fermenter, tighten thoroughly then I leak test with a solution of sodium metabisulphite in the fermenter and then to complete my paranoia a good spray of starsan all-round is the final rinse before wort goes in. I bottle direct from my fermenter after batch priming with sugar solution. I do not get trub in my bottles.

 

[GerritT]

You take it off between brews so all the parts dry out and you can clean the bit behind the back nut. You'll be left with a tap, a front o-ring and a back nut. Before use I soak these in VWP (one of the few things I still use VWP for because it's so easy to totally rinse off small items). After rinsing I attach to the fermenter, tighten thoroughly then I leak test with a solution of sodium metabisulphite in the fermenter and then to complete my paranoia a good spray of starsan all-round is the final rinse before wort goes in. I bottle direct from my fermenter after batch priming with sugar solution. I do not get trub in my bottles.

And they do well in the dishwasher. I'm quite chuffed with my taps.

 

[Llamaman]

You take it off between brews so all the parts dry out and you can clean the bit behind the back nut. You'll be left with a tap, a front o-ring and a back nut. Before use I soak these in VWP (one of the few things I still use VWP for because it's so easy to totally rinse off small items). After rinsing I attach to the fermenter, tighten thoroughly then I leak test with a solution of sodium metabisulphite in the fermenter and then to complete my paranoia a good spray of starsan all-round is the final rinse before wort goes in. I bottle direct from my fermenter after batch priming with sugar solution. I do not get trub in my bottles.

That sounds seductively simple... how do you get the priming solution to mix in without disturbing the trub? Does it just diffuse on its own?

 

[foxbat]

That sounds seductively simple... how do you get the priming solution to mix in without disturbing the trub? Does it just diffuse on its own?

I mix it gently for a few seconds with a long sterilised spoon from the wife's kitchen set and then use the next 30-60 minutes to prepare the bottles while it all percolates. I generally use flocculent English ale yeasts that, after 2 weeks warm and 1 week cold crash are packed down so hard at the bottom of the FV you could cut the trub into segments and serve it like a pie. Stirring above it is not a problem.

 

[Llamaman]

I mix it gently for a few seconds with a long sterilised spoon from the wife's kitchen set and then use the next 30-60 minutes to prepare the bottles while it all percolates. I generally use flocculent English ale yeasts that, after 2 weeks warm and 1 week cold crash are packed down so hard at the bottom of the FV you could cut the trub into segments and serve it like a pie. Stirring above it is not a problem.

Thanks.
I don't have any means to cold crash, but I'll try to pick flocculent yeast strains to minimise disturbance.

Mmmm, trub pie :)