Problems with the Landlord

[slowdave]

Hi all,
I'm after some advice as to what went wrong with a recent AG brew of a Landlord clone.
I was brewing a typical Landlord recipe using my Brewzilla and the mash and boil went to plan - SG hit predictions and all appeared well.
I fermented the wort using NBS Ale yeast (from Malt Miller) in a typical plastic fermentation bucket in my temp controlled brew fridge.

The problem was that fermentation kept going and went down to 997.
I kegged the beer and have given it 4 weeks of conditioning and would comment on its taste as follows;

Looks like Landlord (right colour etc)
Body is a bit thin (but only slightly)
Tastes Landlord-ish
But the main problem is - The beer has a really acid feel in the stomach.

Any thoughts on what I did wrong?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Possible bacterial or wild yeast infection that continued to eat through all the sugar.

 

[DocAnna]

I agree with @Agentgonzo about the bacterial infection, though wild yeast are unlikely to still be active as they on the whole have far lower alcohol tolerances than brewing yeasts. The bacteria typically lactobacilli, produce lactic acid as they digest the remaining sugars. It is possible the acidity will get worse.

Where the bacteria entered your process will depend on your equipment, but it will be on the cold side, ie after the boil. Any equipment used to hold the beer must now be considered contaminated, and I'm sorry to say, will require an effective clean rather than just sanitation. I recommend either an alkaline brew cleaner if stainless steel, or VWP is excellent for plastics/tubes for soaking.

 

[Clarence]

What did you brew in the fermenter prior to the Landlord? If you used a yeast of variety S. Diastaicus then there's your answer. Some of these yeast can form a biofilm, making it more difficult to eradicate them entirely and they'll munch through all available sugars.

 

[slowdave]

Thanks for the responses.

I think the last ferment in the FV was a wine.
I gave the FV a good clean yesterday with an active oxygen cleaner but noted that there was a scratch on the inside - so that can go in the bin.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Thanks for the responses.

I think the last ferment in the FV was a wine.
I gave the FV a good clean yesterday with an active oxygen cleaner but noted that there was a scratch on the inside - so that can go in the bin.

Does wine yeast tend to ferment down to these low gravities? I know champagne yeast does, but not other wine yeasts in general. It could be some of that residual yeast.

Just because it's scratched, doesn't mean it can't be salvaged with a good deep clean. But plastic fermenters are cheap, so you may not want to risk it.

If you have the space and are going to replace it, don't just bin it. You can use/Freecycle it for other purposes, like a big tub for holding starsan etc for soaking things.

 

[DocAnna]

A day or so soak in VWP will almost certainly sort the fermenter- scratched or otherwise.

 

[The Baron]

I am not a scientist but when I have fermented beer down that low it does have a acid taste to it, like when you use GlucoAmylase that too gives a acid taste. I would test the Ph on the finished beer just for your records.
However it usually needs a infection of other yeast to generally take a beer that low so it does point to that

 

[Cwrw666]

Does wine yeast tend to ferment down to these low gravities?

Yes. Very much so, but they wouldn't leave the beer tasting acidic. Red wine kits typically end up around 0996.

 

[Sadfield]

Yes. Very much so, but they wouldn't leave the beer tasting acidic. Red wine kits typically end up around 0996.

In wine, not in beer they don't, many won't ferment maltose, the main sugar in wort, and won't touch maltotiose, which is mainly what remains after normal fermentation. This is why they are often used as bottling yeasts, by only fermenting simple priming sugar.

@slowdave With no body to beer, the acidity of carbolic acid (carbonation) will be more evident. There aren't many options if you have super attenuation with little off flavour. Have you used saison, belgian or weizen yeast recently?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Then residual yeast in the fermenter is a probable cause. A good 24hr soak in some VWP or bleach should clear it up.

It's also worth thinking about your other kit (siphon tubes etc) that may have been contaminated too. It's pretty easy to throw it all in if you're soaking the fermenter.

Edit. Posted before sadfield's rebuttal. Either way, soaking as Anna says is a good next step

 

[trueblue]

I find Landlord is one clone you can get very close to the real thing if you use Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire yeast, reputed to be derived from Taylors yeast, and get your water ratio chloride forward.

 

[An Ankoù]

In wine, not in beer they don't, many won't ferment maltose, the main sugar in wort, and won't touch maltotiose, which is mainly what remains after normal fermentation. This is why they are often used as bottling yeasts, by only fermenting simple priming sugar.

@slowdave With no body to beer, the acidity of carbolic acid (carbonation) will be more evident. There aren't many options if you have super attenuation with little off flavour. Have you used saison, belgian or weizen yeast recently?

I hope it isn't carbolic acid you've got in there!!!!! I think you might mean carbonic acid - if such a thing can exist at beer temperatures.

As for scratched plastic @slowdave , not a good reason to chuck a perfectly good fermenter. People are still fermenting commercially in slate squares- not least the brewers of your Landlord, or "unions" of wooden barrels and are still maturing their beer in wood. None of these things polish up to a mirror finish and all add a certain character to the finished beer.

Edit: in retrospect, I don't think TT use Yorkshire squares, but there are plenty of breweries in that neck of the woods who do!

 

[Sadfield]

I hope it isn't carbolic acid you've got in there!!!!! I think you might mean carbonic acid - if such a thing can exist at beer temperatures.

Bloody phone, it would however rule out a bacterial infection.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

Thanks for the responses.

I think the last ferment in the FV was a wine.
I gave the FV a good clean yesterday with an active oxygen cleaner but noted that there was a scratch on the inside - so that can go in the bin.

Wow, that's a problem. I brewd about 17 batches and I only got one infected. Had to throw at sink half of bottles.
Why? I reuse a wine bottle to save slurry from prior batch. Even rinsed and sterilised with iodoform. I saw somewhere that acetobacter are really tough, probably is that make you beer sour.

BTW, how is head of beer? That time, it was killed by the infection. And the beer tasted like wine, drinkable, and than, like vinegar.

 

[slowdave]

Thanks for all the responses.
Interestingly I have got it in a corny and it is over carbonated.

It's time to give everything a good soak in vwp.