Priming Question

[BasementArtie]

Hypothetically if I were to prime each bottle individually with a syringe 5ml for 2.5g per bottle would I take into account the solute displacement of the water?

I.e. per 100g sugar there would be an increase of sugar ~62ml = so I start with 100g and 200ml however once dissolved the solution volume will be 262ml. Would I take the increase into account when calculating?

100/200 X 5 = 2.50g
100/262 X 5 = 1.91g

Or as it's a solution and the sugar is mixed evenly and readily does the increase in volume not matter and I would be drawing up 2.5g sugar in a 5ml syringe regardless and I'm just worrying too much?

 

[Applesnmore]

I was going to say ah the virtues of batch priming, but technically the issue remains. Personally I've batch primed 100g sugar in 200g water and had no issues. The guys who use software can no doubt point out the difference in carbonation levels, my guess is, is it a problem in real life or a theoretical one?

 

[RichardM]

What ever volume you have after dissolving the sugar just divide that by the number of bottles and use the syringe to add that volume to each bottle.
The volume of water used to dissolve the sugar is so low compared to the batch volume that it really isn't going to make differerence to the calculated carbonation level.

 

[Clint]

This sounds complicated! I use the required amount in a saucepan full of water. Works every time!

 

[The Baron]

If you dissolve the sugar in 200 and the sugar takes the volume to say 250 then you must divide the 250 between the amount of bottles you are dosing for the correct dose.
Regards the sugar amount it is correct as you have already worked it out for the amount of full beer you are going to carbonate, a case of over thinking it I think Artie

 

[BasementArtie]

What ever volume you have after dissolving the sugar just divide that by the number of bottles and use the syringe to add that volume to each bottle.

This is what I was thinking. However the calculation I see flying around everywhere is if you want 2.5g per bottle per 5ml syringe squirt and 40 bottles;

5ml*40 = 200ml
and
2.5g/5 = 0.5
0.5*200 = 100g Sugar
Or
2.5g*40 = 100g sugar
Thus
100/200 * 5 =2.5g per bottle

However should I be taken into account that water displace every time. I.e.

262ml/40 bottles = 6.55ml per bottle = 2.5g

It may not seem huge but surely without taking into account the extra amount of liquid and getting only 1.92g per 5ml would only end up with a carbonation of 2.28vol/CO² per a 33cl bottle fermented at 20C

Rather than the aim carbonation of 2.735vol/CO² per bottle. That's a rather large difference.

 

[BasementArtie]

If you dissolve the sugar in 200 and the sugar takes the volume to say 250 then you must divide the 250 between the amount of bottles you are dosing for the correct dose.
Regards the sugar amount it is correct as you have already worked it out for the amount of full beer you are going to carbonate, a case of over thinking it I think Artie

Would you weigh the solution before and after dissolving the sugar to divide it by amount of bottles or just rely on 100g sugar = 62ml increase in volume.

 

[BasementArtie]

I actually did my calculations again I think it might actually be 1.83 us fluid ounces = 54.12 millilitres per 100g sugar (when it's fully dissolved). Can someone "more smarter than I" confirm this?

 

[RichardM]

You really are overthinking this

 

[The Baron]

You really are overthinking this

Yes you are the amounts of variation is a slight difference and IMO not worth bothering with enjoy what you are doing and do not join the anal/paranoia gang is my advice

 

[The Baron]

Would you weigh the solution before and after dissolving the sugar to divide it by amount of bottles or just rely on 100g sugar = 62ml increase in volume.

Whichever Artie as long as you divide it by the number of bottles it will be there or there abouts, brewing is not so finite to worry about small differences

 

[BasementArtie]

do not join the anal/paranoia gang is my advice

You're already too late I always overthink it and can't get out the rabbit hole

 

[The Baron]

You're already too late I always overthink it and can't get out the rabbit hole

Oh Dear I know some people do overthink things my advice then is to try and maybe think about it but try not to be too finite so round things up to a approx decision rather than going to the decimal points. The beer will not understand the decimal point

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

can't get out the rabbit hole

Nice in 'ere innit - I was thinking of putting some curtains up ;-)

 

[RichardM]

Oh Dear I know some people do overthink things my advice then is to try and maybe think about it but try not to be too finite so round things up to a approx decision rather than going to the decimal points. The beer will not understand the decimal point

One evening at one of our home brew club meetings I talked through the recipe for a beer I had taken along and then said "it's 4.86% abv". One of the members, who used to be a professional brewer said "really, how do you know? It could be anything between about 4.5 and 5.5"
He was right, as home brewers we can't really measure things that accurately.

 

[The Baron]

I think we can be a little more accurate than he suggested Richard but I do agree. We generally use a hydrometer and trust our eyesight plus how accurate are they compared with scientific HMRC grade measurement tools? If we bottle and prime how much does that add its a educated guessing game but near enough for us homebrewers

 

[RichardM]

I think we can be a little more accurate than he suggested Richard but I do agree. We generally use a hydrometer and trust our eyesight plus how accurate are they compared with scientific HMRC grade measurement tools? If we bottle and prime how much does that add its a educated guessing game but near enough for us homebrewers

Even commercial brewers don't have to be that accurate, the BRITISH BEER & PUB ASSOCIATION GUIDELINES FOR THE CONTROL OF ALCOHOL CONTENT FOR THE PURPOSES OF DUTY PAYMENT say "actual ABV must be within 0.5% ABV either way of the declared ABV for beers with a declared strength up to and including 5.5%, and within 1% ABV of declared ABV for beers with a declared ABV greater than 5.5%. "

 

[An Ankoù]

A teaspoon full of sugar per bottle. Flat spoonful for a 500 and a heaped spoonful for a 750. Fold a "V" in a strip of card to help slide the sugar in.
If you're making more highly carbonated beers then calibrate your spoon for 3g for a 330 and 6g or a bit more for a 750.
I've read about batch priming here and on other forums. Seems like an oxidation opportunity at the very least.
Been doing this for 50 years and never had a problem.

 

[The Baron]

Same here AA its amazing how many of the exponents of the batch prime are the ones that go on about oxidation in other threads. 2 issues to batch priming No 1 you really need to transfer to a secondary which is the first risk of oxidation and the other issue is it has to be stirred in for even distribution.
Me I just use a teaspoon and put the back of a knife over it to level it and believe you me you can use SHMBO's baking spoon for this so 1/4 teaspoon to Tablespoons variance for different styles not that I would ever use a Tablespoon

 

[Robin54]

A teaspoon full of sugar per bottle. Flat spoonful for a 500 and a heaped spoonful for a 750. Fold a "V" in a strip of card to help slide the sugar in.
If you're making more highly carbonated beers then calibrate your spoon for 3g for a 330 and 6g or a bit more for a 750.
I've read about batch priming here and on other forums. Seems like an oxidation opportunity at the very least.
Been doing this for 50 years and never had a problem.

Exactly the same except- I have a little funnel. Like you have been brewing for nigh on 50 years and never had a problem. Its the modern world where everyone is looking for a problem and not a solution.