Primary, secondary and conditioning stage

[andynohearu]

Good morning one and all. I'm left somewhat confused. The more I read the more so. I understand there are three stages to home brew. However, I have been adviced several times to ferment the beer as per usual, but then to transfer to a pressure barrel and leave on warm for couple of weeks, and then move the barrel to a cold place for conditioning. Shouldnt I really be transferring from fermenting bucket, to another, then to barrel at conditioning stage? Thank you in advanced.

 

[An Ankoù]

In my experience, if it's an ordinary strength beer, then it's best to conduct secondary fermentation and conditioning in the pressure barrel. The last legs of the fermentation will help to pressurise the barrel. Barrels tend to stay where you put them and you take your glass there for a refill. With bottles, on the other hand, we move them around, and pour the beer from the bottle. We want the beer to be as clear as possible so we try to get the beer to drop clear before bottling and then prime the bottle for conditioning. Also, bottles don't usually come with an over-pressure relief valve. That's my philosophy on the matter, anyway.

 

[andynohearu]

Thank you for this. The issue I got is temperature. I need to put the barrel on top floor so it keeps constantly warm for the secondary stage, then move to the cellar for the cooler temps for conditioning. However, I'm aware this might be bad practice as I am disturbing everything when it goes from top floor to cellar?

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

Thank you for this. The issue I got is temperature. I need to put the barrel on top floor so it keeps constantly warm for the secondary stage, then move to the cellar for the cooler temps for conditioning. However, I'm aware this might be bad practice as I am disturbing everything when it goes from top floor to cellar?

I wouldn’t worry too much. By the time the keg has conditioned and the beer aged (maybe 2-3 weeks In the cold) the disturbed sediment etc should have settled back to the bottom of the barrel.

 

[andynohearu]

I wouldn’t worry too much. By the time the keg has conditioned and the beer aged (maybe 2-3 weeks In the cold) the disturbed sediment etc should have settled back to the bottom of the barrel.

Thank you. I'm about to transfer from bucket to pressure barrel but I'm not convinced the first stage is successful. It's been two weeks. Got a Mexican cerveza and an artisan 1st gold ale. Have posted pictures. Is it worth putting fresh yeast and/or nutrients and give it longer?

 

[An Ankoù]

No, I wouldn't do that. The first one looks as if it needs to go in a sealed container right away. Have you measured the gravity of each? What temperature is you cellar, by the way?

 

[andynohearu]

No, I wouldn't do that. The first one looks as if it needs to go in a sealed container right away. Have you measured the gravity of each? What temperature is you cellar, by the way?

First one, which has norhong floating, is a Mexican cerveza. The temperature at top floor where it was fermenting was 22-24 first week due to hot weather and second week was 20. Both barrels were in same place protected from light and fans going at them all the while. The temperature therw now is 20. Cellar temperature is about 13-15.

 

[andynohearu]

First one, which has norhong floating, is a Mexican cerveza. The temperature at top floor where it was fermenting was 22-24 first week due to hot weather and second week was 20. Both barrels were in same place protected from light and fans going at them all the while. The temperature therw now is 20. Cellar temperature is about 13-15.

What about the second one, does thay look OK?

 

[An Ankoù]

First one, which has norhong floating, is a Mexican cerveza. The temperature at top floor where it was fermenting was 22-24 first week due to hot weather and second week was 20. Both barrels were in same place protected from light and fans going at them all the while. The temperature therw now is 20. Cellar temperature is about 13-15.

That's about pub cellar temperature, where the casks would carbonate and condition. The cellar, I mean.

 

[An Ankoù]

What about the second one, does thay look OK?

It looks fine, but have you got a hydrometer?

 

[andynohearu]

That's about pub cellar temperature, where the casks would carbonate and condition. The cellar, I mean.

So transfer to pressure barrel now and take straight to cellar? Don't keep it warm in secondary fermenting?

 

[andynohearu]

It looks fine, but have you got a hydrometer?

Not yet. I'm a complete novice. There one on its way

 

[andynohearu]

So transfer to pressure barrel now and take straight to cellar? Don't keep it warm in secondary fermenting?

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

So transfer to pressure barrel now and take straight to cellar? Don't keep it warm in secondary fermenting?

I would ignore the idea of ‘secondary fermentation’ completely to be honest. Secondary fermentation is transferring the beer from the primary to another vessel, for the purpose of ageing the beer away from all the debris at the bottom of the primary fermenter. Then you transfer from The secondary to the keg or bottle. For standard strength ales etc this process is largely pointless, in my opinion. Really you want to focus on a few key things. 1. Look after your yeast by monitoring the fermentation temperature. A stable temperature throughout the first few days of fermentation will make so much difference to the overall flavours of the beer.
2. if you haven’t already, get a Hydrometer. Without one, it is kind of guess work as to when your beer has really finished fermenting.
3. When the beer is finished fermenting, transfer to the bottle or keg and look at how you want to carbonate your beer. This can often be depending on your keg set up. Some people don’t use priming sugar. Some do. I do because my keg is a plastic cheap thing from a home brew store. I prime my keg and this will hopefully get eaten up by the yeast and carbonate the beer. This is not necessarily considered a secondary fermentation as such and the initial carbonation process often takes Just a few day’s, depending on the temperature in the room. Ideally reasonably warm.
4.I would then age the brew for a few weeks or so in a cool place. Ideally this is the same place that you will serve the beer from.

 

[An Ankoù]

Spot on, Fireside. Andynohearu, glad there's a hydrometer on the way. It's the best way of understanding how the fermentation's progressing. Yes, put them in the pressure barrels. Put a tablespoonful of table sugar in the one that looks flat and screw the lids down. I presume your barrels have pressure relief valves in case excess gas needs to vent?

 

[andynohearu]

Thank you so much. So priming is basically putting rhe sugar in and transferring the beer? From now on I will just, ferment in bucket following all advice, teansfer to pressure barrel and top up sugars, and put into cellar. In thd winter months, the cellar is is 2-7c. Would it still work in those temperatures?

 

[An Ankoù]

Thank you so much. So priming is basically putting rhe sugar in and transferring the beer? From now on I will just, ferment in bucket following all advice, teansfer to pressure barrel and top up sugars, and put into cellar. In thd winter months, the cellar is is 2-7c. Would it still work in those temperatures?

No. A lager yeast will "lager" nicely at those temperatures, but an ale yeast will struggle. 13-15C is the usual cellar temperature for ales and stouts. In the winter, keep your ales upstairs at as near or a bit above that temperature as possible and serve from there.
Have you got a book? I recomend Greg Hughes' Homebrew Beer.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

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Thank you so much. So priming is basically putting rhe sugar in and transferring the beer? From now on I will just, ferment in bucket following all advice, teansfer to pressure barrel and top up sugars, and put into cellar. In thd winter months, the cellar is is 2-7c. Would it still work in those temperatures?

What you could do is brew ales through the spring and summer. Then brew lagers in the winter. Yummy.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

Down the line you could always make yourself a fermentation chamber. Basically a fridge with a tube heater at the back and an ‘Inkbird‘ digital thermometer to monitor the fermentation temperature. If it gets too hot, the inkbird turns the fridge on, if it gets too cold the inkbird turns on the heater. Ideally maintaining the desired fermentation temp for your brew. This way you can brew anything you want In your cellar all year round.

Here is a photo of my set up. Very easy to do and fairly cheap too. The most expensive part is the fridge. Greenhouse tube heater is at the back. From Amazon. Inkbird also from Amazon.

 

[andynohearu]

No. A lager yeast will "lager" nicely at those temperatures, but an ale yeast will struggle. 13-15C is the usual cellar temperature for ales and stouts. In the winter, keep your ales upstairs at as near or a bit above that temperature as possible and serve from there.
Have you got a book? I recomend Greg Hughes' Homebrew Beer.

Thank you so much for this