Pre built pid temperature controller

[Drunkula]

... and it does the job just as well as my STC 1000 did.

Which isn't a PID.

Here it is and Beer Hawk do it for around 30 quid:-

https://mangrovejacks.com/products/dual-temperature-controller

Isn't a PID.

Dual relay output to connect in a position with refrigeration and heating systems at the same time - £29:99 free postage - :thumba:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inkbird-...417858?hash=item33b0bb9e42:g:XgQAAOSwwBha4tcQ

Not a PID.

 

[Alfie]

Not a PID.

This guy wants a PID and I think he's getting PIDDLED around here. Amiright?

You are right indeed and my apologies, I thought it was just for a FC ! To be fair that is clarified later in the the thread, so, yep, my mistake.


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[Hoddy]

I agree, and this is why so many people get confused when they want accurate temperature control.

Having done a bit of a look around there does seem to be distinct lack of “pre built” PID control units suitable for small scale home brew setups.

However I have noticed that inkbird do this http://www.ink-bird.com/products-PID-controller-ipb16.html called an IPB-16.

This looks bang on for what you are looking for. However I can’t find anywhere in the uk (even though they show uk sellers) where you can get it.

If @chippy_tea or one of the mods can loop in inkbird maybe they might be able to advise how you and others can get their hands on one in the uk. If not just order from the us and pay the import duty if it gets checked.

Either way looks nailed on for non experienced people to be able to buy a genuine PID controller in a box.


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[Hoddy]

And just to remind people I posted these YouTube vids in a thread a little while back.

What is PID control......

PID Control 101 - what you need to know
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...1---what-you-need-to-know.77742/&share_type=t


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[Alside101]

I had seen the inkbird pre wired pid but would it be right for the voltage over here

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If @chippy_tea or one of the mods can loop in inkbird maybe they might be able to advise how you and others can get their hands on one in the uk. If not just order from the us and pay the import duty if it gets checked.

I will do that now Hoddy. :thumba:

 

[Hoddy]

I had seen the inkbird pre wired pid but would it be right for the voltage over here

Voltage shouldn't matter in this case as the SSR will switch any voltage and there is a separate supply (DC) for the controller itself.

So hopefully Inkbird will come good for a supplier for you.


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[Alside101]

Be good if thay did a uk version with right sockets on it

 

[AdeDunn]

I got a big carried away with mine, and ended up with this:-



That's for single vessel BIAB control, with a recirculation pump though. I use the power regulation during mashing set to 60% power and it keeps my temps spot on. The SSR button allows me to remove the SSR completely from the circuit during the boil (it cuts the 12v signal from the PID to the SSR) so that when I use the boil switch, with the mash switch in the off position, I can still use the PID to monitor temps. I can do the same with the mash switch, boil switch and cut off switch all turned off too whilst cooling so I can monitor the temps then using the PID. Overkill for sure, but I did say I got carried away.

Now when I built this I hadn't yet started on my medication for my tremor, and I still managed to do it just fine. The biggest tip I'll give you is, if you don't have one already then get yourself a coping/fret saw with a 360 degree blade, and a pack of diamond coated files, for cutting the holes. I made the hole for the PID with a drill and a jig saw and you can see it's a right mess. I got a fret saw part way through and the holes got much cleaner. Oh, and using a nice big project box helps tons too, gives you room for all those cables hidden away in there...

I've done 2 brews with it so far, and it's worked a treat.

Even if you end up buying a pre-wired one, you may want to have a go at building one too as a project. Quite a few project logs on here you can follow where folks have done so.

 

[Alside101]

That looks the biz. I'd love something like that but i think I'm going to buy 1 first then build 1 as project later

 

[Alside101]

What thermowell do you guys use in a 1/2 t piece

 

[Druncan]

I subscribe to a newsletter for this development;
http://smartpid.com/smart-homebrewing/

Sadly I cannot see a way of getting it to control my Buffalo 3kw induction hob,,,,,

 

[simon12]

I got an STC 1000 thing all built from a guy on jims beer kit a few years ago, he can do a PID one aswell. I don't know if he still does them but I just emailed him to ask and will let you know.

 

[Alside101]

I got an STC 1000 thing all built from a guy on jims beer kit a few years ago, he can do a PID one aswell. I don't know if he still does them but I just emailed him to ask and will let you know.

Nice one mate let me know.

 

[AdeDunn]

What thermowell do you guys use in a 1/2 t piece

No thermowell, I bought 2 1/2" NPT PT100 probes off ebay and I fit them directly, 1 into a T piece in the lid of my boiler, the other into the body. I use the T piece one when recirculating the mash, the body probe the rest of the time when the pump isn't running.

Incidentally, the expensive controller I was thinking of was the Einbrew ones, but as I mentioned they are VERY expensive and do a lot more than you want (hence the price).

 

[Bill_g]

Interesting thread, but an explanation of the PID (proportional integral derivative) and the advantage of the PID hasn't been given. In case of interest here goes ...
Low cost controllers like the STC 1000 are on/off controllers, so if the temperature is less than the target the heater is on, if above the cooler is on. They have hysteresis to avoid chatter on the target temperature but that is the extent of the sophistication of control. The problem is for temperature control of mash etc is that the thermal lag between the heater element and the sensor will lead to too much heat energy being input and overshoot will occur. The PID runs an algorithm which proportionally reduces the heat input as the target is approached. IF set up with the correct parameters overshoot could be small or zero with a PID but if it's set up badly overshoot could be as bad as with a STC1000. Hopefully a commercial PID would come with calibration instructions.
If I needed a PID for a mash tun I'd probably build my own based on an Arduino microcontroller controlling AC to the heater via a TRIAC driven from an isolating triac driver. It would be an easy job but a lot of work, so completely uneconomic to consider building for someone else if a commercial unit can be purchased. Also the PID parameters for the heated mash tun uner control would need careful measurement using known accurate thermometers and a stopwatch, so interesting but rather time consuming to get right. The advantage of a fully homebrew PID would be that full control of the algorithm would be in your hands.
The trouble is of course that the temtation to sample the intended product during the development might make the necessary concentration rather elusive!

 

[Alside101]

No thermowell, I bought 2 1/2" NPT PT100 probes off ebay and I fit them directly, 1 into a T piece in the lid of my boiler, the other into the body. I use the T piece one when recirculating the mash, the body probe the rest of the time when the pump isn't running.

Incidentally, the expensive controller I was thinking of was the Einbrew ones, but as I mentioned they are VERY expensive and do a lot more than you want (hence the price).

The idea is to use thermowell so i could just move the probe around

 

[simon12]

Nice one mate let me know.

Sorry his reply was "I do not make the controllers any more as they are so time consuming to make and people don’t want to pay what they actually cost me."

 

[Drunkula]

Hopefully a commercial PID would come with calibration instructions.

They do. They've got an auto tuning cycle you can run and it's better running it near to the set point (the term they use for target temp/whatever) a few times. And the three values it sets you'll have to write down if you want to change batch sizes because a 20 litre and 30 litre with the same heater would have different values, but it's simple once you know that.

It's crazy how good they get once they've tuned in. I was doing experiments with all sorts of things from masses of water to sticking the heat probe in the head of a torch and you can set the display to show what percentage of each time slice it's on for - so if it's 10 seconds beween and it shows 50 it's on for 5 seconds. After a while it just kicks on for 1% of the time and it's great. It's can be rubbish while it's learning and so you need to tune it before a real brew day, and you can use spent grain to simulate a mash if you want. After that it's fantastic.

I was going to write a friendlier version of the Inkbird manual but forgot about it as some of the parameters in it are of no use at all, some are a little esoteric, and despite having 2 alarms one's just a light on the front and the actual relay it's supposed to run isn't there. It's still fantastic, though. And if you want you can set it to the dumb STC 1000 behaviour, or flick it to manual and change the power out from 0 to 100 if you know you'll keep a rolling a boil with your setup at say 45% once it's at temperature.

 

[Alside101]

Sorry his reply was "I do not make the controllers any more as they are so time consuming to make and people don’t want to pay what they actually cost me."

Ok thanks pal