poor mashing results

[Talon_Ted]

i have just re-started home brewing using my old equipment but have found that my mashing results have been way below expectation and past performance. i am using maris otter from a well known hb shop but my efficiency figures are around 75% as opposed to the high 80's seven years or so ago. i am working on 1kg malt supplying 30 degrees to 10 litres as the max figure. i have moved across the valley and the water i am using now is local water as opposed to severn trent mains in the past. any suggestions anyone?

mashing for 90 mins at 63 degrees. strike temp 74 deg, sparge 74 deg. 32 litre before boiling.
recipe: 3.5kg pale malt, 1 kg crystal malt.

thanks for any help you can give me.

mark

 

[prolix]

Ph may be a cause, different water having different buffering and so Ph too low or too high.

You might want to measure it next time or use Ph 5.2

Do you have a water report for your water?

 

[evanvine]

Welcome to the Forum TT.
Normal rule of thumb mashing temp is 66 degs for 1.5 hrs.
Your sparge temp is right.
I would expect a pre boil SG of 1040 (85%)
Post boil 1048.

 

[Talon_Ted]

thanks for the replies.

prolix: i don't have a water test but will make enquiries. i will buy some litmus paper to test it myself as well. what do you recommend to alter the pH if it is too high or alternatively too low? i built a trail methane digester a few years ago and maintaining the pH was much harder than i expected with theory and practice being a long way apart!

evanvine: i will experiment with a mash temp of 66deg next time.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Hi TT :thumb:
Welcome back to brewing.#
Have you got an alkalinity report on your water, do you use CRS?

BB

 

[prolix]

you can get an alkalinity test kit from aquatics shops pretty cheaply this will tell you the carbonate content.

You can only test the PH of the mash, you need Ph strips that measure around 5.2.

Ph5.2 stabilizer is a phosphate based additive that keeps the mash at 5.2 you can get it from the sponsers at the top I believe.

For ball park advice though is your area chalky/limestone, granite, or other unknown. Where does your water come from?

 

[Talon_Ted]

BB/ prolix

i don't have a water report and i'm not sure what CRS is but i have just purchased some pH5.2 from my hb supplier and will try that later this week. i will make enquiries from others on the same water supply.

water in the general area is pretty hard. the land locally is clay over sandstone with a few pockets of sandy land a few miles away. i have only been on this supply about 8 months having switched over from mains.

TT

 

[evanvine]

You can get a water supply report by going on your suppliers web site and typing in your post code.
Once you have that, you can use THBF's water treatment forum.

 

[Aleman]

Brewhouse efficiency or mash efficiency . . . one is measured in the copper and the other in the FV . . . one is much lower than the other, Water chemistry is not going to make that much difference. There are so much more important factors. Like . . .

1) How old was the grain
2) When was it crushed and how was it stored
3) What was the degree of crush
4) what wast the strike heat
5) How uniform was the mash - Dry areas / dough balls
6) what was the sparge temperature
7) how long was the sparge
8) What type of grain filter was used
9) channelling of the liquor round the goods
10) what was the gravity of the last runnings

Plus a few more I forget . . . . . And of course there are a whole load of other fatctors affecting brew house efficiency

 

[Talon_Ted]

aleman

the malt is crushed and from a well known hb suplier. expiry date 2011.

strike temp 74deg

mash uniform as i keep stirring until it is all a smooth porridge

sparge 74 deg, i did it slowly for about 35 mins

it sits on a alloty sheet with many holes of approx 4mm

no channeling was visible or has ever been with this set up

i was still seeing colour and some v slight sweetness in the last dregs but had already got to 7 galls by then.

do you have any thoughtd re the above?

TT

 

[jamesb]

We've just had a batch of malt where the potential extraction was significantly less than normal and the actual extraction was a lot less than normal. Not happy at all, we wondered why they didn't send the malt sheet with the delivery. It's probably not your problem, but be aware that it can happen.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

My brews improved a 1000% once I knew about water treatment, CRS is a God send! Oh, and campden tablets too!!! .....................
Naughty chlorine :nono: :nono:

BB

 

[Talon_Ted]

BB

what is CRS? is it the same as pH5.2?

TT

 

BB

what is CRS? is it the same as pH5.2?

TT

I think it's something like Calcium Replacement Solution, but I could be very wrong.

 

[jamesb]

BB
what is CRS? is it the same as pH5.2?
TT

I think it's something like Calcium Replacement Solution, but I could be very wrong.

Carbonate Reducing Solution. It neutralises carbonates without the need to boil.

 

[pjbiker]

There are formulas you can use to calculate the amount of CRS you would need to use to neutralise the carbonate you have in your water, using the content figures (sometimes) obtainable from your water authority. There loads of discussion posts about the chemistry.

The CRS is basically a dilute acid.

I worked out mine by experimentation. I was mainly concerned with obtaining the correct Mash pH of 5.2 so I did 'nano mashes' in mugs in a pan of mash temperature water. To each mug I added water (and grain) with a slightly different concentration of CRS. After about 10minutes, the one that achieved pH closest to pH5.2 contained 1.7mL/L, and thats what I've stuck to since. I no longer have any pH paper or a meter so don't worry about it now :grin:

Oh if it's any help, my water comes from North Leicester.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

BB

what is CRS? is it the same as pH5.2?

TT

As far as I know CRS is a blend of acids to reduce bicarbonate in your supply (Aleman is the best to ask about this)
You'll need to obtain a water report or buy a testing kit for around £9.00 off ebay or from an aquatic shop near your home.
As an example my water requires me to use 0.8 ml per litre to reduce it.

Do you use campden tablets to remove chlorine?

BB

 

Carbonate Reducing Solution. It neutralises carbonates without the need to boil.

I knew it, I couldn't have been more wrong!

 

[Aleman]

CRS and campden tablet WILL NOT dramatically affect mashing efficiency

It sounds as though sparging was a bit quick, ideally should be about 45 minutes so with only a 10 minute difference I wouldn't expect too much loss.

As James says the extract potential of the malt could be an issue.

I appreciate you wanting to 'protect' the HB Supplier, but I have had poorly crushed malt from reputable retailers and wholesalers in the past, plus putting a expiry date of 2011 on crushed malt is a bit optimistic.

If it is malt supplied to the retailer crushed from the maltster than I would expect it to be fine assuming they turn over a reasonable amount of malt so keep fresh stocks . . . If it was Supplied to the retailer from Youngs I would suspect that it was old, certainly poorly crushed, and probably slack.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

f it was Supplied to the retailer from Youngs I would suspect that it was old, certainly poorly crushed, and probably slack.

The slack malt will compliment their stale hops nicely.
BB