Poll - Who Racks off Beer to a Second FV

[Victor Churchill]

Retaining (+ freezing?) wort for use as secondary ferm booster/primier - interesting idea - what sort of amount are you using?

edit - sorry, your reply came up after I submited this! :-)

 

[terrym]

it is just letting the fermentation go on a bit so that the rest of the air in the secondary vessel is pushed out, and possible oxygen remains are removed by active yeast.

I also don't have any means of charging headspace of the second FV with CO2 from a secondary source, so decided to do things similar to yourself. But the principle I have decided to use is a simpler approach (for me) of racking off when there is still a little activity, typically say after day 3 or 4 although each brew might be different, so that there will be a chance for the headspace in the second FV to get replenished with CO2 from the last stages of the primary. For me its a clarity issue on some yeasts as I said in the OP, nothing to do with conditioning, and the difference in the clarity of beer at packaging time was really noticeable between racking off and not racking off for comparable brews.

 

[marshbrewer]

So, those of you who rack into a secondary after a few days but whilst there is still a bit of activity, do you end up with trub in the secondary? I'm wondering if this would be ideal for harvesting as a) it's yeast that is active b) yet still flocculant and c) crud free because that was all left in the primary?

 

[terrym]

@jjsh
You are correct as far as I am concerned. At the end of the period in the second FV it is basically 'clean' yeast at the bottom since its only that which was transferred over in suspension, unless you have drawn across any trub from the first FV at the time of transfer. And I would very roughly estimate the quantity I get in the second FV at about 2mm or less at the bottom rather than possibly 7/8mm or more given the way I do things.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

No, I just ferment in primary and keg, my beer is always clear.

I do leave quite a lot of gunk behind from the mash where some people consider this a waste and transfer it all into the FV. I’m not sure how big an impact this makes on clearing time because I’ve never done it - it just seems wrong to me to move unwanted stuff into the next stage of your brew.

Maybe the topic of another debate!

 

[An Ankoù]

For those wanting to take the plunge, something that I absolutely don't want to spend money on is CO2. I brew minimalistic. So I can't purge my secondary vessels.

Always keep some wort for transfer to secondary. Boil it and let it cool, put it first in your fermenter, put the hose of your racking cane in this wort (well, I do have an auto racking cane) and start the transfer.

I always keep some of my beers for a year to check what the influence of time is. I have never encountered one which tasted oxidised. Some loss of taste sometimes, yes.

The idea for me is here: if you are careful, then you really don't have anything to fear from the oxidation spectre.

Disclaimer: I always bottle, so my beers referment in the bottle, and when cleaning them before bottling, I rinse them with a meta-bisulfate solution, which might leave traces of meta-bisulfite in the bottle. I can't prove that any of these two things does have an influence against oxidation.

This sounds like a great way of purging the secondary fermenter of oxygen, but I'm still not sure what you mean. Do you put the unfermented wort in the secondary with a bot of yeast and wait until it starts fermenting so that the secondary is purged before transfering the bukk of the beer from primary, or do you put the unfermented wort into the secondary and syphon the nearly-finished beer from the primary to just under the surface of the new wort?

 

[chthon]

I get you, that's a pretty clever move. Do you know how much this changes ABV?

It doesn't change it, because I use a part of what normally would end up in the fermenter. In my case that is about 1/20th of the volume brewed. Or I just press out the wort from the hops that are left in the boil pot, then cook that again a bit to sanitize, before packing it into an airtight container and freezing it.

 

[chthon]

This sounds like a great way of purging the secondary fermenter of oxygen, but I'm still not sure what you mean. Do you put the unfermented wort in the secondary with a bot of yeast and wait until it starts fermenting so that the secondary is purged before transfering the bulk of the beer from primary, or do you put the unfermented wort into the secondary and syphon the nearly-finished beer from the primary to just under the surface of the new wort?

Yes to the bold part.

 

[BeerCat]

Only for bulk aging strong beers and sours.

 

[RichardM]

Although I voted "Never" to "Do you rack off your fermented beer to a second FV for few days before packaging?". I do rack to a second vessel the day before bottling/mini kegging.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I've only done is a few times many years ago in order to batch prime disadvantages (possible oxidation and infection outweigh the benefits). Also, the couple of times I've used a yeast that wasn't very floculant, I didn't notice more yeast in the bottles than usual.

If not doing a secondary ferment is good enough for Jamil Zainaschef, it's good enough for me.

 

[HarryFlatters]

Nope, never have. I transfer from primary straight to the keg, or to the bottling bucket with priming sugar.

 

[Sadfield]

Occasionally do this when using an open FV, as @chthon outlines. I also do it for bulk ageing, sometimes on wood and/or with Brett or bacteria. I use a corny as the second FV, so no issues with oxidation and as has been established in other threads, infections are a myth, so no worries there.

A trick another brewer used to use was to have a tube running from their FV to the tap of a second FV (sanitised) fitted with an airlock. During fermentation this second FV/bottling bucket was purged with co2 as it travelled from one FV to the other and out of the airlock.

 

[Graz]

I've done it once I think with a Brewferm kit that recommended it in the instructions. Not sure I'd bother again though. Certainly wouldn't do it for the day to day stuff, time is short enough as it is without adding extra stages to brews.

 

[Keruso]

No, it's not batch priming, it is just letting the fermentation go on a bit so that the rest of the air in the secondary vessel is pushed out, and possible oxygen remains are removed by active yeast.

And I always freeze wort that needs to be kept, because indeed, it might get fermented even in the fridge.

I might have an advantage here because I work on a scale of at most 10 litres.

Hi so basically you’re introducing more sugar in the form of wort when transferring to secondary in order to remove any oxygen by giving any suspended yeast transferred some food, which I guess is a bit of a hybrid between conditioning and fermentation, interesting

 

[labrewski]

Yep I always do I normally dry hop just at end of fermentation then transfer after dry hop for 2 to 4 days I find u have hardly any sediment in bottles and clear beer always

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I've only done is a few times many years ago in order to batch prime disadvantages (possible oxidation and infection outweigh the benefits). Also, the couple of times I've used a yeast that wasn't very floculant, I didn't notice more yeast in the bottles than usual.

If not doing a secondary ferment is good enough for Jamil Zainaschef, it's good enough for me.

Ahahaha. I've just realised I never have. I was muddling up secondary fermenter and bottling bucket. Which shows hong long it is since I've done it.

Everything else I said stands though.

 

[Edison]

If I’m brewing a very dark beer or a deliberately cloudy beer I’ll go straight from FV to Corny. If I’m after a nice clear beer or especially a lager, once it’s totally finished and cleaned up in the FV I rack to a modified Corny BBT (shortened dip tube) and crash chill/force carbonate at 0C for a few days. Then this can be sent to a serving Corny via CO2 in a totally closed system reducing O2 pickup. This way I can reduce the amount of yeast etc carried into the final Corny so it can be transported and not end up cloudy and I can drink fairly clear beers without adding finings.

 

[ClownPrince]

I'm a 'Sometimes' but it's more like 'Most of the time'