Plate cooler sanitation

[Philmac]

I have had a bad run- lost 2 batches in a row and i have not lost one in a long time and never back-to-back! So i was thinking about what the issue could be and i've narrowed it down to either
a scrape in the inside of my fermenter.
Or the cleaning of my plate cooler- i immerse my plate cooler in sanitiser for a good while before rinsing it out with water- would that be sufficient to clean the plate cooler or is this where my issue is occuring?

Thanks!

 

[JonBrew]

I've never used a plate chiller but understand they are an absolute bugger to clean.

I have a friend who used to use a plate chiller before he got fed up with the faff of cleaning and switched back to an immersion chiller. I recall him mentioning that he pumped hot detergent through the chiller (back and forth) until it ran clear. Then he'd flush the thing with very hot water (from his brew kettle).

 

[simon12]

When I used 1 to clean it we would recirculate hot cleaner (sorry can't remember what but make sure its OK for copper) through it changing the flow direction several times for about 20 mins, but this was to get rid of all the hop bits in it. to sanitise we would pump the boiling wort through for the last 15 mins of the boil. I imagine submersing it may not clean it through properly and something nasty could lurk inside and its more likely than a scrape on the fermenter as that would normally still get sterilised and cleaned despite it. Anyway thats my best guess.

 

[simon12]

Just had a thought if you put it in the oven for 30 mins at 200C that should kill any nasties for sure.

 

[Sadfield]

I think JonBrew has hit on this. Cleaning and sanitising aren't the same thing. A good chemical clean and then sanitising should solve the problem. I'd be wary of baking in the oven if the cooler isn't spotlessly clean as you may just bake on the dirt and biofilm that is harbouring bacteria.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[Sbond10]

Ive recently built a counterflow i plan to wash mine with hot water for ten minutes then change the water and heat it upto 70 c and put a dishelwasher tab in and run this thru for 20 mins then another ten minutes with clean fresh water. I will go forward for before brew clean and back for after. ill be sanitising using hot wort pumped thru for 20 minutes.

You should be looking at doijg summat similiar with a plate chiller either with dishwasher tabs, pbw, grainfather cleaner or summat similiar.

Not to have a dig but dishes left in the sink dont clean them selfs you need to scrub scrub

 

[Clint]

Try leaving it soak in a bucket of oxi prior to flushing? What about that pbc or grain father cleaner? Mentioned elsewhere by myself and others...caustic..

 

[Sbond10]

Try leaving it soak in a bucket of oxi prior to flushing? What about that pbc or grain father cleaner? Mentioned elsewhere by myself and others...caustic..

Wouldnt caustic cause damage to any brass or copper within the plate chillers plus any connecters

 

[divrack]

I have had a bad run- lost 2 batches in a row and i have not lost one in a long time and never back-to-back! So i was thinking about what the issue could be and i've narrowed it down to either
a scrape in the inside of my fermenter.
Or the cleaning of my plate cooler- i immerse my plate cooler in sanitiser for a good while before rinsing it out with water- would that be sufficient to clean the plate cooler or is this where my issue is occuring?

Thanks!

could be either. I've had some super evil infections that defy explanation, but I'm fairly sure they were living in some scratch on plastic brew buckets. now I do a straight caustic, bleach star San number on them before any brew and am pretty quick to get them out and into stainless kegs with co2 or into bottles nowadays as the seal is useless on those things. I find that if I leave the dregs and reseal them they will usually go bad fairly quickly. never any problem once in the keg or bottles though. I'm trying to build up a decent supply of cornys so I'll don't have to use them ever again, but damn it, they keep getting filled up with beer.

 

[hop-a-long]

The GF also uses a counterflow wortchiller, but that's a tube-in-tube design. It makes for easier cleaning.
I also had a blockage and because of the design I just used airpressure to clear it. After that I cleaned with the GF caustic cleaner and rinsed with hot clean water. No problems since.

Maybe you could buy a sepetate GF counterflowchiller and avoid such problems.

 

[Druncan]

I had problems with beerstone (oxylate) Brewlab described it as a mineral sponge that bugs can hide in. Hot wort and hard water can leave this. I now use Brewlab C1-c3; Nitric Acid Beerstone remover (every month) hot caustic wash to dissolve gums and then final sanitisation with paracetic acid no rinse and drain each brew. My bacterial samples have been dramatically improving. Thankfully the short rod bacteria were spoilage not pathogenic. But I do not want to be complacent. Now investing in a portable air filtration system to remove airborne wild yeast, virus, pollen, mould spores in the brewing area. It's a *ugger to have to do this but appears appropriate for my set up.

 

[simon12]

Like Sbond10 says don't use caustic on copper plate chillers, the guy who owned the 1BBL brewery I used to before me did and it was only when I found that could be the only reason the SG decreased slightly after the boil was due to having cleaned the plate chiller with caustic that much have made a minute hole. He used Caustic on brew vessels & fermenters then a peracetic rinse to sterilise and destroy any remaining caustic but I didn't like anything that dangerous. I used murphys enzebrew for the brew vessels and caskclean for casks and fermenters both are as safe as fairy liquid.

 

[Sbond10]

Ive just washed thru my brand new cfc with dishwasher tabs at 70 c it deffo smells cleaner time will tell if this method of cleaning works

 

[Druncan]

@simon12 Found it! Enzybrew; https://murphyandson.co.uk/store/brewhouse-enzymes/151-enzybrew10.html
Interesting, thank you!

 

[Fil]

Cleaning is a pita with most cfc solutions,and afaik only straight tube cfc solutions while bulky do solve this problem.

But once clean to your satisfaction i would suggest at least 1 x stringent sanitation run in an attempt to eradicate everything even if your only realistic option is the oven.

If you can tho depending on size insertion into a pressure cooker or pressure canner and heating upto 135c @15psi for 15 minutes should kill everything.

Otherwise:
Tyndalisation, (boil,rest a day boil, rest a day boil) is an older world not quite 100% effective sanitation step with initial boils killing off all microlife bar spores and stimulating spores to 'sprout' and killing in further boils in the sequence. Might be a better option than a less than spotless oven??

 

[simon12]

@Druncan thats the one sorry about the spelling before the other one for beer stone is this https://murphyandson.co.uk/store/brewery-hygiene/127-caskclean-30kgliquid.html