Philip Hammond says there are 'no unemployed people'

[Irishwizard]

Absolute rubbish Ken.

The real reason why Eastern Europeans work the fields is down to cheap labour, nothing more.

I first came to Cornwall in 1990 to pick Daffodills in the fields. There was no Europeans back then, not in the flower fields, not in the veg fields, they were nowhere.

We came in our hundreds to do the works because there wasn't enough local labour to keep up with demand. Go forward a few years and the odd few Europeans started to join us. By then the Supermarkets became the sole buyers of the flowers and veg, prices were at rock bottom, all the supermarkets were competing against each other.

Not long after these lovely employers only started to employ foreign labour, English not welcome, been there seen it with my own eyes. Even now in 2017 you will rarely see an Englishman on a field. Why ?, because they are flown over from Eastern Europe, settled in static caravans, eight to a van and pay ���£100 each for the rent a week. They earn minimum wage, are paid two weeks in arrears. If they don't pick a certain amount, they are shipped back. Not a bad business is it when they charge ���£800 a week per caravan and there are 80 of them on a site two miles from where I live. To keep them in work they have a on site doctor, on site nurse to sort out any problems with health. Much easier than them taking time off from there jobs/living quarters and spending hours in town looking for a doctors surgery.

Whereas when we worked the land, we were paid piece work rate. We could earn just over a hundred pound a day each without any deductions. Its a bit different to sixty quid they are earning each day, isn't it.

That's why there is no local labour in the fields, nothing to do with not wanting to do it.

here here...Ive been saying this for years...and branded a racist

 

[Ken L]

The real reason why Eastern Europeans work the fields is down to cheap labour, nothing more.

We have a minimum wage in this country and it applies to Eastern Europeans as well as to locals, so all you're saying is that locals aren't prepared to take the work, the pay, the hours and conditions to the point here it's cheaper to recruit overseas, pay for flights, privately contract healthcare providers and arrange for accommodation.

If British people can't compete with someone who has a 700 mile commute, they don't deserve the job and should be sanctioned and refused benefits for refusing to take work that is available.

 

[Ken L]

I'd argue the state has no right to tell you what you can or cannot ingest into your own body, and that laws which do dictate such things are a direct violation of your right to bodily autonomy.

If you have the finances to insure yourself for the consequences of your actions and can find an insurer willing to shoulder the risk, have at it.
But the reality is that you want to roll the dice and have the rest of society pick up the bill if it comes up snake eyes.

Travel insurance firms are already rejecting claims from people who have been drinking. How do you think the wider insurance industry would feel about your claim to the right to bodily autonomy?

 

[Ken L]

Yes,more than a few Tory voters here,which is fair enough,I personally could never, ever vote for them but each to their own.
Money talks

I've never yet voted Tory but the labour party no longer represents me or any other working person. They are now the party of foreigners, the jobless and middle class champagne socialists.

 

[Gunge]

I've never yet voted Tory but the labour party no longer represents me or any other working person. They are now the party of foreigners, the jobless and middle class champagne socialists.

Last time I saw JC on telly, he seemed to imply that dole wallahs should get the same as brain surgeons in the name of equality. Then we can all be part of a big, happy-clappy family where all is well with the world with rainbows and talking ponies everywhere.

 

[Ken L]

Last time I saw JC on telly, he seemed to imply that dole wallahs should get the same as brain surgeons in the name of equality.

Was that before or after he eulogised Castro as a "champion of social justice" and stated "We salute Chavez and the people of Venezuela for turning the clock of history full circle", even as the people were starving and being brutalised by the regimes thugs?

 

[MyQul]

Just an observation, my local weatherspoon 15 years ago was full of all the same faces of the long term unemployed alcoholics since then many have died off, 1 or 2 got barred, a few have got jobs and nearly all the regulars now work. Has anyone else noticed this change?

My 'spoons is full of art students now from the local art college because they can't afford £6 for a pint of artisan bespoke craft ale

 

[MyQul]

Last time I saw JC on telly, he seemed to imply that dole wallahs should get the same as brain surgeons in the name of equality. Then we can all be part of a big, happy-clappy family where all is well with the world with rainbows and talking ponies everywhere.

Jesus Christ was on telly? :shock:

 

[Ken L]

I would love to work. I get pig sick every day doing the same thing, I've put on nearly five stone in five years through inactivity. I've cut down what I eat, use an exercise bike when I can, but my main problem is boredom. I search the job ads daily to see if there is anything I can do but the wife says that there isn't any point. Its the system as a whole that is wrong, its complicated and long winded. If I for example took a job sat on my backside working in Tesco on the tills for Christmas, Tax Credits and other benefits would virtually stop while a new claim is made. By the time it is sorted out, we would be in debt, the mortgage wouldn't be paid and I might even come back out of work due to my back, meaning another claim has to be made and the cycle starts again.

These that don't want to work don't get an easy ride nowadays, and so they shouldn't.

Cognitive dissonance and proof that the system is broken.

 

[aneray]

We have a minimum wage in this country and it applies to Eastern Europeans as well as to locals, so all you're saying is that locals aren't prepared to take the work, the pay, the hours and conditions to the point here it's cheaper to recruit overseas, pay for flights, privately contract healthcare providers and arrange for accommodation.

If British people can't compete with someone who has a 700 mile commute, they don't deserve the job and should be sanctioned and refused benefits for refusing to take work that is available.

What I'm saying Ken is Farmers do not want English workers full stop. Whats the point advertising for workers through various agencies and Job Centres, knowing that they will have to interview every single person they employ, fill out form after form which includes ones for Housing Benefit and Childrens Tax Credits.

Most of these Farms now run on skeleton crews, tractor drivers are agency staff, all to keep outgoings down and profits up. We no longer live in a country where farms were once like The Darling Buds Of May. These farms are run by owners that are at breaking point financially, owed massive amounts from the supermarkets in payments, under the cloud of financial ruin if one of the major supermarkets turns away an order. One order could be a hundred acres of cabbages. If it chucked it down with rain and the cabbages have got muddy, Mr supermarket inspector will refuse the lot and go somewhere else. Now what does he do.

Its much easier to make one phonecall to an agricultural agency in Eastern Europe to arrange workers than it is to employ English staff. There again, we like to call them agencies abroad, but they are really known as Gangmasters who treat their workers like crap.

All in the name for our cheap veg in supermarkets.

 

[Ken L]

Its much easier to make one phonecall to an agricultural agency in Eastern Europe to arrange workers than it is to employ English staff.

Well. I trust that you voted to leave the EU for the sake of your fellow agricultural workers.

 

[aneray]

Well. I trust that you voted to leave the EU for the sake of your fellow agricultural workers.

I certainly did Ken.

Was it a mistake. I don't know, we will see.

 

[Gunge]

Jesus Christ was on telly? :shock:

No, but I said "Jesus Christ" AT the telly.

 

[MyQul]

No, but I said "Jesus Christ" AT the telly.

Not sure why but I always find it amusing when you see Corbyn referred to as JC.

I also find it quite interesting the way supporter of the respective two main parties view their leaders. With Corbyn, supporters always seem really passionate about him. You dont get this with May. Passionate Conservative supporters are passionate about the Conservative party rather than the leader. Cult of personality in the case of Corbyn? Or there's just nothing about May to get passionate about?

 

[Thumper]

If you have the finances to insure yourself for the consequences of your actions and can find an insurer willing to shoulder the risk, have at it.
But the reality is that you want to roll the dice and have the rest of society pick up the bill if it comes up snake eyes.

Travel insurance firms are already rejecting claims from people who have been drinking. How do you think the wider insurance industry would feel about your claim to the right to bodily autonomy?

Providing you're a tax payer, you have as much right to healthcare as anyone else regardless of what choices you make. And since we are a civilised country with a proper healthcare system, insurers and their opinions are irrelevant.

 

[Thumper]

I have no trouble believing that eastern European Labour has pushed average wages down in some unskilled sectors. They're willing to do the same amount of work for less money, because it's still a damn sight more than they'd get paid back home.

That doesn't mean English people can't get jobs. If you choose to turn a position down because you don't think the money is worth the effort, than all power to you... But that's your decision.

I still remember watching a documentary in A level Geography about the supposed crisis of eastern European labour in the fruit and vegetable picking industries. It involved many shots of the presenter telling young English men outside the job centre that he could get them a job, but they'd have to get up at x o'clock in the morning and work y number of hours a day for z amount of money, only to be told time and again that they'd rather sign on.

I have some sympathy for those young men. It's a damned hard job for too little pay. But you can't moan because someone else is willing to work harder for less than you are.

 

[Gunge]

but they'd have to get up at x o'clock in the morning and work y number of hours a day for z amount of money, only to be told time and again that they'd rather sign on.

There should be no 'rather' about it; work or starve. I can't see why I should pay to house and feed dole wallahs who make that choice. Besides, this minimum wage thing is crapola - it gets topped-up by tax credits!

 

[Ken L]

Providing you're a tax payer, you have as much right to healthcare as anyone else regardless of what choices you make. And since we are a civilised country with a proper healthcare system, insurers and their opinions are irrelevant.

Tell that to the overweight people refused hip replacements or an alcoholic placed firmly at the back of queue for a liver transplant.
Surely you're not naïve enough to think that if you mess your head up with drugs that you chose to take, doctors with limited resources are going to lavish their time and energy on you.........?
Boy are you in for a shock.

 

[Ken L]

If you choose to turn a position down because you don't think the money is worth the effort, than all power to you... But that's your decision.

Absolutely. More power to you. Just don't expect or any other tax payers to feed or house you while you stand on principle.

 

[Ciaran12s]

Tax credits - is that not big businesses scrounging off the system? They won't pay workers enough to live on therefore the government have to boost their incomes, hence ensuring the profit margins of private companies continue to widen.