Philip Hammond says there are 'no unemployed people'

[MyQul]

I don't disagree with any of that, particularly on property where the taxing landlord profits side of the equation does not appear to be working.

I do though think there's more than just the benefit system that means people don't want to take low paid work. There are people my age who were sold the idea that a university degree would be a path to a richer life, people who in my parents generation wouldn't have gone to uni. They now can't find 'graduate level' work but don't want to take lower paid stuff. The benefits system is obviously a lever government can pull to get individuals to take work, but my sense is something else is needed at a societal level. No idea what though!

Anyway, no easy answers but it's been an interesting evening of discussion, not a locked thread in sight either! Really must go to sleep now, and not because I've got to go to work in the morning.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, it's never too late to drop the big padlock

 

[Ajhutch]

Oh, it's never too late to drop the big padlock

But please sir we aren't breaking any rules!

 

[Ken L]

I do though think there's more than just the benefit system that means people don't want to take low paid work. There are people my age who were sold the idea that a university degree would be a path to a richer life, people who in my parents generation wouldn't have gone to uni. They now can't find 'graduate level' work but don't want to take lower paid stuff.

Yep, there are far too many people going to university and saddling themselves with huge depts and no chance of job at the end of it.
The fact that universities now have literacy officers speaks volumes about the extent of the issue
We need a shift to concentrate more on STEM subjects, reduce uni expectations down to a sustainable level of perhaps 20 to 25% of school leavers and sort out a proper scholarship system so that really bright kids from poor backgrounds get the opportunities they need.

 

[Dutto]

When I went into business for myself my Dad told me ...

"Remember that any silly bugger can work for nothing."

and

"Income is NOT profit so make sure that you put enough money away to pay your dues."

It was sound advice (that I followed) but I could weep when I see people on "Zero Hour Contracts" being classed as "working" when they don't actually know if they have any work or not.

Even more worrying for me are those people who work a full 40 hour week but still need to have their wages topped up by "benefits" in order to live. The person who really benefits from this is the employer who should be paying them more.

What happened to "A fair days pay for a fair days work."??

 

[pms67]

The problem is that while solutions are actually very simple, implementation of them isn't.
Suddenly ending child benefits and WFTC isn't an option, but making them obscelecent and reducing payments for existing recipients year on year is.
Suddenly ending housing benefit isn't an option, but reducing the rate at which it is paid year on year is and would result in landlords being forced to drop their rental charges and eventually divest themselves of their taxpayer funded property portfolios as buy to let ceases to be profitable. This would mean a drop in property prices and young people being able to get on the housing ladder.
Creating a society where people will take work in food factories or seasonal work in agriculture or tourism requires changes to the benefits system.
This is fabric of society stuff and we have a structural problem in that sorting it out takes the sort of skills that anybody who has gone through the higher education system on such policy areas is utterly unfit to provide.

Are you Maggie Thatchers ghost

 

[simon12]

Back to the robots taking all the jobs, first its not robots as such but automation like you already see on the tills in the supermarket and mc donalds. Its been feared since the industrial revolution and never happens because whatever technology is replacing workers people find ways to use the tech to create new jobs that never existed before and the industries where people have been replaced whetever they produced gets very cheap ie. clothes after the industrial revolution

 

[Ken L]

Are you Maggie Thatchers ghost

Is that supposed to be a counter argument?

 

[pms67]

Is that supposed to be a counter argument?

Sorry mate I was half cut.
Apologies 🤭
Feel brutal if that makes you feel better though lol 🤢

 

[MyQul]

Are you Maggie Thatchers ghost

The ghost of riots past?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Cheap foreign labour leaves the country (voluntarily or not) and suddenly British farmers can’t staff their operations as British people (like the lad on Gunge’s street) don’t want to work for minimum wag

I was under the impression if you do not prove you are looking for work you are sanctioned and receive nothing.

.

 

[Gunge]

I was under the impression if you do not prove you are looking for work you do not get any benefits.

.

Apparently not the case.

 

[MyQul]

I was under the impression if you do not prove you are looking for work you are sanctioned and receive nothing.

.

Yes, this is the case with job seekers allowance (JSA)

 

[MyQul]

Apparently not the case.

Only if your in the 'support' group of Employment support allowance (ESA). If your in the 'work related activity group' of ESA you still have to attend interviews with an adviser and prove your looking for work, just not as often as JSA

So unless you know for sure, the lad you know could be on ESA in the support group.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

According to the .Gov site -

Sign an agreement to look for work (‘Claimant Commitment’)

At your JSA interview, you must sign an agreement about what steps you’ll take to look for a job. This is called a ‘Claimant Commitment’.

You and your work coach will agree what goes in your Claimant Commitment. This could include:

what you need to do to look for work - for example registering with recruitment agencies, writing a CV

how many hours you need to spend looking for work each week

What you agree to do will depend on things like:

your health

your responsibilities at home

how much help you need to get work or increase your income

 

[chewie]

There's a dude couple of doors down from us, 24 years old and never worked a day in his life. Rent paid, fuel paid, council tax paid. Not tried finding work cos he doesn't want to ( his words ). But things have gotten so desperate lately that my eternally soft missus has taken to supplying him with meals, from money I have worked for. WTF??? This is enraging me no end but for now, I'm keeping a lid on it to preserve domestic harmony. But it won't last.

For your domestic harmony here's hoping he doesn't take to asking her to try your homebrew...:-?

 

[Gunge]

For your domestic harmony here's hoping he doesn't take to asking her to try your homebrew...:-?

Lol he doesn't drink but can get thru tons of weed. Bet that don't come cheap. Benefits must pay more than I thought.

 

[Gunge]

Only if your in the 'support' group of Employment support allowance (ESA). If your in the 'work related activity group' of ESA you still have to attend interviews with an adviser and prove your looking for work, just not as often as JSA

So unless you know for sure, the lad you know could be on ESA in the support group.

He's certainly fitter than me ( and should be at 28 years younger) but reckons he's got 'depression'. Sob... ain't everyone these days, but I don't get the impression that he's depressed, far from it. I guess some folk are experts at putting on an act for the doctor.

 

[Linalmeemow]

If he's depressed then loads of weed is not going to help him!

 

[MyQul]

He's certainly fitter than me ( and should be at 28 years younger) but reckons he's got 'depression'. Sob... ain't everyone these days, but I don't get the impression that he's depressed, far from it. I guess some folk are experts at putting on an act for the doctor.

Physical fitness doenst really have anything to do with wether someone is unwell or not. As someone can be mentally unwell and fully fit. Depression of course is a mental health problem. Were talking proper depression not just feeling a bit down. A mental health problem isnt something I'd wish on anyone. As I understand things your not depressed 100% of the time ( I'm defiantely not an expert but I have clients that are prescibed medication for depression) , it can come and go. Perhaps he only talks to you when he feels well enough?

I'm not trying to make excuses for this lad as I dont know him, but illness and wellness aren't as cut and dried as they can sometimes seem

 

[MyQul]

Lol he doesn't drink but can get thru tons of weed. Bet that don't come cheap. Benefits must pay more than I thought.

That's one of the problems of having not having a job - boredom. In small towns with high unemployment drug use is also very high. I have no idea of prices but I'd suggest drugs are cheaper than you think