Phenol flavour in beer post fermentation - what to do?

[RobWalker]

Humm. I have plenty of medicinal/clove sort of flavours in my new beer. here's the recipe;

Zee-Zee Hop V2
Brew Type: Partial Mash Date: 10/09/2011
Style: Blonde Ale Brewer: R. Walker
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 2.43 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % Equipment: Brew Pot (3 Gallon)
Actual Efficiency: 79.7 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.00 kg Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 67.5 %
0.50 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 16.9 %
30.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
20.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (30 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (10 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.46 kg Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 15.6 %
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.052 SG (1.038-1.054 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.013 SG (1.008-1.013 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Color: 6.0 SRM (3.0-6.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 18.5 IBU (15.0-28.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 1.6 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.0 % (3.8-5.5 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 5.1 %
Actual Calories: 231 cal/pint

Mash In Add 1.30 L of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C 45 min

First time partial mashing so I'm inclined to say it's the flavour of the wheat and I just don't like it. Everything was well sanitized (probably over sanitized) with VWP, and it's still very young so it's hard to judge the overall taste at the moment. It's also got a weird thinness and lack of bitterness...

What's done is done, but how can I reduce the flavour if possible? I really don't wanna chuck it out!

 

[Mark1964]

cant see anything wrong but...... did you treat your water. we were getting phenol tastes in our water and had to contact yorkshire water who sent us 2 non return valves one for the washing machine one for the dishwasher. They say that the water sits in the rubber pipes until you turn a tap on then the pressure sucks that standing water out through the tap which causes phenol taste like tcp. Since we fitted the non return valves no problems :thumb:

 

[RobWalker]

ah, that's really interesting! I'll give severn trent an email. I didnt treat my water as this is my first issue, I've read up on chlorine too and it seems that could be the cause - apparently Birmingham has very, very good water because it all comes from welsh springs or something. But that might be hearsay. :p

Will deffo be treating next time :)

 

[Mark1964]

get yourself a salifert alkilinity testing kit off ebay and a water report from severn trent then get all the figures from the water report and put them in the forum calculator the ones you need to look at are calcium ,magnesium, sodium ,chloride, sulphate and the alkilinity of your water thats what the salifert kit is for. You wont beleive what a difference treating your water makes to your beer

 

[battwave]

If it's anything like the problem I suffered for a couple of years, ie TCP tasting beer, half a campden tablet crushed in your brewing water 20 minutes before you use it will deliver amazing results. Water companies now add chloramine, rather than chlorine to tap water. Chloramine can't be removed by standing, boiling etc, but reacts with the phenols in hops to form chlorophenols (the clue's in what TCP stands-for) - apologies if i'm trying to teach you how to such eggs.

 

[snail59]

I could be totaly wrong here but wouldn't a High mash/ferment temp cause the same :wha:

 

[dennisking]

Must likely either chlorine in water, cured by campden tablet, or not rinsing the WVP properly, you stated you may of over sanitized, you need to rinse off all traces.

 

[Aleman]

Steeping grain at too high a temperature can extract phenols.

As can over sparging.

You may have some luck fining with Polyclar 730 plus (from murphy homebrew) which does reduce phenol (and tannin) levels.

 

[Jon474]

I suffered from this post-fermentation problem for about six brews. Horrible clove-like aroma and flavour in my beer.

I thought it was one of two things...chlorine/chloramine in the water...so treated for that...no effect, no change...I then thought it could be the effects of not rinsing thick bleach - Domestos - from my equipment.

Eventually, I tracked it down to a wild yeast problem. I had to go on a course on taints and off-flavours to learn this.

I used to ferment my beer in our conservatory. There were a lot of potted plants in there, as well as a frequently open door to the outside world. In hindsight, a wild yeast haven.

Solution: move the FVs to a different location whilst changing nothing else...problem gone.

Take care
Jon

 

[RobWalker]

^^ good info mate. I reakon it's from the sterilizer, i'm almost sure of it, as I didn't know it was a rinse sanitizer. i'm now rinsing and following this, I am fermenting in the spare room - clothes and cardboard boxes.

 

[shocker]

If the cleanser is a chlorine type then a spray bottle of 10% sodium metabisulphite can help .I have read that giving things a mist with that will neutralise any chlorines left after rinsing .This has the added bonus of helping (note ,just helping not curing) wild yeast problems .There is the eternal conundrum of disinfection - once you have rinsed away any cleaners the items are left open to re-infection/contamination if not used immediately ....maybe a spray could help here.

The chloramine thing is VERY interesting info , I had no idea about that .I had wondered that commercial tap waters were gassing off less chlorine by smell ,this probably explains that .Mind you ,water companies in Cornwall dont have the best record of safe treatment .And the spring water can be no better - I draw attention to the aforementioned dead horse incident.

The high mash temps issue I didnt know about but am very interested to hear .

The old books suggest licquorice sticks as a possible way to save TCP tainted brews -how much you fancy that one mate ,I dont know .If you would like I could look it up and post .

There is an amazing wealth of knowledge and experience here and its great that everyone seems keen to share it !

 

[RobWalker]

mayaswell give it a go, it's just sat in the keg ready to be chucked! how would one go about that? :p

 

[shocker]

Im trawling the books mate but have an eye injury so its slow going....soon as I find it ,its yours....shame to waste all your efforts