peroni help please

[Manxnorton]

guys n girls,
I'm mulling the idea of making a Peroni.
could you help if I'm in the right track?
sorry again I mention my 'Learning difficulties' its hard, n it can get frustrating but I'm getting there....slowly:thumb:
onbvoius theres flaws with my quick beersmith.......so please understand it was quick lol
the sugar for adjunct was aim for getting the %ABV up...but yous could help me to the right direction...please.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 28.00 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 25.50 l
Final Bottling Vol: 21.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Three Stage

Date: 02 Feb 2017
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Grainfather
Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.9 %
Taste Rating: 30.0

Taste Notes:

IngredientsAmtNameType#%/IBU0.75 kgRice, Flaked (2.0 EBC)Grain116.2 %0.12 kgPale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC)Grain22.7 %0.50 kgDememera Sugar (3.9 EBC)Sugar310.8 %0.60 gSaaz [3.75 %] - Boil 60.0 minHop40.3 IBUs0.30 gSaaz [3.75 %] - Boil 15.0 minHop50.1 IBUs0.30 tspIrish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)Fining6-1.0 pkgLager Yeast (Brewferm #Y016) [50.28 ml]Yeast7-3.25 kgLager Malt (3.9 EBC)Grain870.3 %
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.008 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 %
Bitterness: 0.4 IBUs
Est Color: 6.0 EBC
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Calories: 427.1 kcal/l

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Sparge Water: 26.59 l
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE
Est Mash PH: 5.74
Measured Mash PH: 5.20

Total Grain Weight: 4.62 kg
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Tun Temperature: 22.2 C
Target Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Acid Addition:
Sparge Acid Addition:

Mash StepsNameDescriptionStep TemperatureStep TimeMash InAdd 9.28 l of water at 70.6 C68.9 C45 min
Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (9.09l, 17.50l) of 75.6 C water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle
Pressure/Weight: 123.52 g
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 21.1 C
Fermentation: Ale, Three Stage

Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Bottle with 123.52 g Corn Sugar
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 18.3 C

any help il be truly appreciated.

 

[Leon103]

Peroni - malt extract, corn and rice sugar = bland beer.

 

[Manxnorton]

ok I can I get they quick remark....but a bit confusing tbh.
make extract?...did I do it for an extract brew?? **** I'm nay good it it...sorry...
I know the sugar will get a comment...but why?
and at least with my small brain bland is the end product..
as I said I'm sorry with my difficulty but face with
Peroni - malt extract, corn and rice sugar = bland beer. I'm needed more flesh on the bone to understand.
its not your prob pal..its mine....please forgive.
anyways it past midnight n I'm if not done the thread right or upset in any anyway.
good nite....all will be al reet in the morning...so they say...
thank leon

 

[Dutto]

I'd like to help but for me there is far too much complicated information for me to decipher. Sorry.

I think Leon 103 was predicting that the recipe (and Peroni beer itself) will generally produce a very bland beer.

Personally, on warm summer days I quite like a bland (and low ABV beer) but not at this time of the year.

From the Mash Profile, (Total Grain Weight: 4.62 kg) and a batch size of 23 litres I agree with Leon 103 that it will be a bland beer with a low ABV. (The only Peroni Recipe on Brewers Friend has a 13.5kg grain bill to give an ABV of 5.26%.)

Also, the Hop profile (i.e. Type, Amount, Boil Time etc) isn't there. (Again, on the BrewersFriend Recipe is has 35g of Saaz Hops boiled for 60 minutes.)

Sorry I can't help any further.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
I've tabulated your ingredients to make them easier to see:
Amt. Name. Type.
3.25 kg. Lager Malt (3.9 EBC). Grain. 70.3 %
0.75 kg. Rice, Flaked (2.0 EBC). Grain. 16.2 %
0.12 kg. Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC). Grain. 2.7 %
0.50 kg. Dememera Sugar (3.9 EBC). Sugar. 10.8 %

0.60 g. Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 60.0 min. Hop. 0.3 IBUs
0.30 g. Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 15.0 min. Hop. 0.1 IBUs
0.30 tsp. Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins). Fining.

1.0 pkg. Lager Yeast (Brewferm #Y016) [50.28 ml]Yeast

Peroni have 2 best-selling beers, Red Label and Nastro Azzurro (Blue Ribbon).
Their own website says that they use 25% maize when making Nastro Azzurro.
There is a recipe on a US website that, reportedly, gets close to Nastro Azzurro:
For 23 litres
3780g Pilsner malt
1260g flaked maize
14g Magnum hops @60 minutes
12g Saaz hops @ 15 minutes
12g Saaz hops at flameout.
90 minute mash @ 64.5C
90 minute boil
Yeast: European Pilsner-type yeast

Brewer's Friend gets this to 5.64% ABV 29.86 IBUs
Nastro Azzurro is 5.1% and 24 IBUs

 

[Manxnorton]

Guys sorry if I was confusing!
Thx so much with effort to get this recipe up n running.
I'll think a small batch is best don't u think?
Needing diciper what I'm trying to say is hard as u said so once again I'm sorry.
Looking back on the lager it seems bland...so I hope it can come out ok.
Thx again

 

[Leon103]

I actually didn't even read the post. It was too hard to decipher.

My post was purely a recipe for how Peroni (and most other mass produced lagers).

They use malt extract, corn sugar and rice sugar. So if you want to make a clone then that's how I would start.

 

[Manxnorton]

I actually didn't even read the post. It was too hard to decipher.

My post was purely a recipe for how Peroni (and most other mass produced lagers).

They use malt extract, corn sugar and rice sugar. So if you want to make a clone then that's how I would start.

Thx Leon
A small batch at a time tbh, don't you think?
I'm not a lager drinker but it's for a pal that would to taste a close copy of it.
Mind over the years in a lot of countries tasting commercial draught n canned lager it's got to be Amstel...I think the words I'm trying to say with that lager is the malty taste hits you straight away!!
Once again thx pal

 

[Dutto]

.....

I'm not a lager drinker but it's for a pal that would to taste a close copy of it.

.........

This is fraught with danger so "Beware"! :thumb:

There's now't worse than knocking your pan out for a friend, brewing something that you don't particularly like, tasting it and thinking "Well done me!" and then (because he's a friend and can do it) your mate tells you he doesn't like it ...

... and you are stuck with a brew that you don't particularly like either!

Over the years I have discovered this to my cost so nowadays, for friends, I only brew things that they have never tasted before! (e.g. The Gluten Free Czech Pilsner I brewed for a mate last year who was totally unaware that he could carry on drinking home-brew after discovering he suffered from coeliacs disease.)

Carry on at your peril ... :whistle: :whistle:

... but if you do carry on I heartily agree with the small batch size. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Leon103]

@dutto

Care to share the gluten free recipe. I have a mate in a similar situation.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
That US recipe - I've scaled it down for a 10 litre batch.
1640g Pilsner malt
540g flaked maize
5g Magnum hops @60 minutes
5g Saaz hops @ 15 minutes
5g Saaz hops at flameout.
90 minute mash @ 64.5C
90 minute boil
Yeast: European Pilsner-type yeast
That gets a projected ABV of 5.12% and bitterness of 23.48 IBUs - very close to Nastro Azzurro.
This is a good lager for drinking with Italian food (strangely enough).

 

[bigbud78]

@dutto

Care to share the gluten free recipe. I have a mate in a similar situation.

Me too if you don't mind, my mate struggles to find anything he likes :-(

 

[Manxnorton]

Hi!
That US recipe - I've scaled it down for a 10 litre batch.
1640g Pilsner malt
540g flaked maize
5g Magnum hops @60 minutes
5g Saaz hops @ 15 minutes
5g Saaz hops at flameout.
90 minute mash @ 64.5C
90 minute boil
Yeast: European Pilsner-type yeast
That gets a projected ABV of 5.12% and bitterness of 23.48 IBUs - very close to Nastro Azzurro.
This is a good lager for drinking with Italian food (strangely enough).

Thx Col
I reckon I've got a 10l batch to try...mint
I appreciate it.

 

[Dutto]

@Dutto

Care to share the gluten free recipe. I have a mate in a similar situation.

I bought it on Amazon. It's called "Gone With The Wheat".

I saw it "On Offer" at fifteen quid when I told my mate ... :thumb:

... but I will let you read the price on the link when I actually bought it! :lol:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00I3DWU8Q/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It was also a painful experience as per the Thread below:

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64265

Enjoy! :thumb:

PS Also for bigbud78

PPS

He'd better be a great mate whoever you are making it for! Personally, I've known mine for nearly 50 years and it was a strain to keep smiling! :whistle"

 

[whitts.]

Thx Col
I reckon I've got a 10l batch to try...mint
I appreciate it.

Have you and feedback on this 10ltr batch you did. Thinking of making this as a step into my first ag normally a kit brewer with hop additions and cider.

Also pretty newbie question as to ag but flaked maise is there a diference between flaked maise from a homebrew shop and animal feed flaked maise. The prices i have seen would suggest there is however need to clarify.

 

[Manxnorton]

hi pal,
a lot of water went under the bridge since I posted this thread..
I didn't start the brew, more like ignored it and concentrated on other brews.
I will have to give it more thought, and I'm thinking a 90 min boil and stepped mash schedule.
in fact prob re-arrange the whole recipe tbh.
sorry this doesn't help...but you know what is like..too many brew to try.
Bri

 

[MyQul]

Have you and feedback on this 10ltr batch you did. Thinking of making this as a step into my first ag normally a kit brewer with hop additions and cider.

Also pretty newbie question as to ag but flaked maise is there a diference between flaked maise from a homebrew shop and animal feed flaked maise. The prices i have seen would suggest there is however need to clarify.

In essence, no not really. I think flaked maize from the HB shop has to be'fit for human consumption' of course, whereas animal feed doesnt. Next time I use flaked maize in a brew I'm just going to use the cheapest cornflakes I can find (ASDA smart price 500g@ 45p :whistle:). There are posts across forums saying not to use them because of the additives they put in them but I've read other forum posts of people saying they actually used them and the beer came out great so I'm taking actual real world experience over supposition on this one).

I've been reading a lot lately on pesudo lagers and if you dont have the ability to lager (yet) use W-34/70 as this is supposed to give good lager like results at ale temps.

 

[AlanHarper]

My favourite beer - of a lager type - is Peroni Azzurro so, since it is also my wife's fav beer, I have had a go at a clone of Peroni which is following. I plan to make this starting Monday 18th June so we shall see how it turns out. I will be able to chill it down now I have a Fridge Freezer for my home brewery. I know this recipe calculates to slightly over the original beer's ABV but hey... who cares hic.
======================================
HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: My Peroni
Author: Alan Harper
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: German Pilsner (Pils)
Boil Time: 65 min
Batch Size: 20 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 15 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.066
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.008
ABV (standard): 5.49%
IBU (tinseth): 31.26
SRM (morey): 2.77
FERMENTABLES:
3 kg - United Kingdom - Pilsen (75%)
0.5 kg - Flaked Corn (12.5%)
500 g - Corn Sugar - Dextrose (12.5%)
HOPS:
30 g - Hallertau Hersbrucher, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 11.97
10 g - Hallertau Hersbrucher, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4, Use: Boil for 40 min, IBU: 3.5
20 g - Hallertau Hersbrucher, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4, Use: Aroma for 30 min, IBU: 6.13
40 g - Hallertau Hersbrucher, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4, Use: Aroma for 20 min, IBU: 9.66
MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 65 C, Time: 0 min, Amount: 10 L
2) Sparge, Temp: 80 C, Time: 30 min, Amount: 7 L
Starting Mash Thickness: 3 L/kg
OTHER INGREDIENTS:
5 g - irish moss, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
YEAST:
Brewferm Lager
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 78%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 10 - 15 C
Fermentation Temp: 15 C
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)
TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Tesco's Ashbeck Still Water
Ca2: 10
Mg2: 2
Na: 9
Cl: 12
SO4: 10
HCO3: 25
Water Notes:
This recipe has been published online at:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/666213/my-peroni
Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2018-06-16 16:25 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2018-06-16 16:24 UTC

 

[foxbat]

@AlanHarper I've brewed with hersbrucker a few times and the flavour profile is different to Peroni.

Having just had a decent pint of Peroni not 1 hour ago I'd say the hops are Saaz and what separates it from other macro lagers is a certain sweetness/body that is either coming from pale crystal or a higher mash temperature.

I'd shoot for a typical Pilsner recipe and yeast but aim to finish with a slightly higher gravity.

 

[MyQul]

Peroni is marketed here as 'high quality' and a 'cut above' but an Italian once told me that in Italy it's a working class drink perhaps the equivalent of Carling over here