PeeBee's Brewday - Low Alcohol Beer

[peebee]

Fermentation is certainly finished at FG 1.009. It dropped from 1.013 to 1.009 in just a matter of a few hours. I blinked, and I missed it! The beer has decidedly less mouthfeel than the "Rye NEIPA" but then it has a third of the rye; I think I've just grown used to the "heady" 1.4% stuff.

That pitching-rate article has been interesting. I've got a bit indifferent about the yeast in these low alcohol beers (apart from attenuation) 'cos they don't get much to play with. But I do need to cut back … possibly to 5 or 6g grams, not 11.5g. And the 60 minute boil I don't need to repeat; back to the 30 minutes, 15-20 even, next time.

 

[peebee]

Kegged today. Yes, it was fermented in the keg but I mean the dry hops got taken out (fourth day) and the keg re-pressured. I wish all kegging days were so easy*. "Wateriness" is gone, just needs three or four days to marry the flavours together - but by next time I'll have forgotten again and panicked that my two day old very green beer isn't what I hoped. Hopping rates is holding up, no hint of past "dry autumn leaves" flavours, but certainly not "not bitter" despite the small hop addition (8IBUs and zero boil hops).

*Might have to try this fermentation technique on some lower strength "session beers" (3-4% ABV). I know folk attribute all sorts of qualities to "fermenting under pressure", but always seem to miss out describing just how easy it can make brewing. Once you've established the procedures and equipment that is.

 

[peebee]

I wrote up a summary of my low-alcohol brewing on Jim's forum. A summary might be useful in this thread too, so here's a copy (apologies if you've already read it on Jim's).
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Where I'm up to with this:

This recipe was a bit of a breakthrough: https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2 ... u.html?m=1. Certainly an improvement over "Nanny State" clones (BrewDog). The rye recipe didn't gain much by being brewed to recipe at near 2% ABV, the flavours at 0.5% where just as good. Formulate to maximise flavour and body. Go for low attenuation so you can add more ingredient.

So currently:

• Brew with Rye Malt. This grain adds loads of body to what otherwise would be thin beer. Might try oat malt and wheat malt, but it wont add as much as rye (rye malt has a distinctive flavour, I'll guess not everyone will like it?).
  
• Mash at 74C. That's right, 74C. About as high as I'd dare go, maybe 75C or 76C would work? 30-45 minutes is enough.
  
• BIAB style (full boil-volume mash). No point getting more complicated, and no point sparging either.
  
• Use crystal/caramel malts and don't worry about using amounts like 50% (unpalatable in a normal strength beer).
  
• If you must use barley malts, don't bother with "pale" malt, go straight for something more flavoursome like Munich Malt.
  
• Avoid unmalted adjuncts that will need something (with not much flavour) capable of converting it as well as itself.
  
• Hop balance is difficult to get right. Use the BU/GU (IBU/SG) ratio to get right balance. My last brew was <6 IBUs and plenty bitter enough.
  
• Boil hops are a waste of flavour. Use steep (whirlpool) hops for bittering, and later, dry hops.
  
• Boil times of 30 minutes will be adequate.
  
• Fermenting in the serving keg is a good trick. Under-pressure (spunding valves). No point adding alcohol with priming sugars (which add no flavour).
  
• Use dried yeast, you will gain nothing from liquid yeast.
  
• I've used US-05 yeast (hopeless), S-04 (okay-ish) and the very weak attenuating S-33 (pretty good).
  
• Fermentation may take a couple of days to get started, then finish in a matter of hours!
  
• Don't bother aerating, dried yeast will manage just fine.
  
• The recipe builders don't work properly formulating these recipes. Attenuation will be around 30-45%. The recipe builders might say around 65%, my last 0.5% ABV brew was predicted to come out as 1.3%.
  
• You needn't fine if using Rye Malt. It will still be cloudy!

Finally: When you've finished a recipe write it up on the forum! There's a dearth of info on these recipes and any snippets will be useful to others.
===================================================================

And a summary of my last brew (written up fully in the previous posts in this thread).
===================================================================

Latest brewed recipe:

AFON CEIDIOG 18L (Pale Ale) OG12, 5.9IBU (BU/GU ratio 0.35), FG09, 0.5% ABV, 28% attenuation.

23.7L Water (Soft acid moorland, about 45mg sulphate) chloride added (magnesium and calcium chloride), baking soda and slaked lime to increase alkalinity, sodium metabisulphate to eliminate chlorine. Adjusted to achieve Bru'n Water's "amber full" profile. (Quantity calculated for a 60 minute boil which is unnecessarily long).


0.75kg Rye Malt (Crisp, 25 EBC)
0.25kg Light Munich Malt (Crisp, 22 EBC)
0.20kg Crystal Malt (Crisp, 150 EBC)

1/4 Protofloc tablet
15g Nelson Sauvin (pellets, zero minute, steep 30 minutes at 80-85C)

1pkt Safbrew Ale (Fermentis #S-33)

25g Nelson Sauvin (pellets, 4 days dry hop)

7.2ml NBS Brausol Special (finings - ineffective!)


Procedure as last post. Ferment under pressure (12 psi), served at 7-8C and 8-9psi.

Ferment at 17-18C. Cool (5-6C) before opening keg to add/remove dry hop basket! Repressure after opening keg.

Next time: May "lighten" next attempt with some wheat malt or oat malt (or Munich) in place of some rye malt. May reduce bitter hops a little. There are commercial experiments with yeast specifically for low-alcohol brewing; keep your eyes on them, but don't expect anything for the homebrew market for a few years yet.
===================================================================

My thanks to @Sadfield who has provided plenty of advice during this project. And to the many others of course.

 

[Sadfield]

Great post @peebee.

Too many other brews in the pipeline at the moment to attempt another low abv brew, although I fancy trying something dark. A couple of thoughts popped into my head whilst doing other things, though. Firstly, Crystal Rye could be a way to kill two birds with on stone, freeing up a space in the grist for another grain. Secondly, I wonder what benefit could be had from a long boil, whether there is enough in the wort to be had from any extra caramelisation and maillard reactions? Probably not.

 

[peebee]

Thanks @Sadfield. Crystal Rye? Hum… I do put aside my arguments against caramalt (aka dextrin malt) for these recipes, because I'm sure mashing at these temperatures won't have much impact converting caramalt's dextrins to maltose. I also see extra crystal malt as a sort of insurance against mashing going wrong in these recipes (which when mashing at 74C could be a possibility?). Beats adding maltodextrin powder which offers no extra "grain" flavours, but I'm not sure if it will add the sweetness of lactose if you had a "milk stout" in mind as a dark beer?

I'm staying away from low-alcohol dark beers until I think I have this "pale ale" malarkey sorted out. I'll go back to my original recipe in this thread next to apply what I've learnt using wheat (and oats?) in place of strongly flavoured rye (see if I can get close to the mouth-feel imparted by rye), and not mess up your suggestion of Wai-iti and Bobek hops like I did last year. A "Big Drop Pale Ale" clone perhaps? It was what kicked off this thread originally.

Long boils to get extra caramelisation and maillard reactions? I think I agree, "probably not", because there isn't much floating about to be subject to such processes.

 

[peebee]

There was some discussion on another forum covering "cold mashing/extraction". With a couple of links:
http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/c...onents-and-their-use-in-brewing-applications/
http://jonscrazybrews.blogspot.com/2017/03/non-enzymatic-mashing-aka-cold-mashing.html
The latter article was loosely based on the first but had some contradictions that I commented on:

The term "non-enzymatic mash" is nonsense as the blog states, but it goes on to say that starch conversion doesn't occur at these cold temperatures, yet the blog also remarks how sweet the cold mashed wort was. I don't remember the Briess article mentioning a "normal" mash temperature step either?

Cold starch conversion does occur. Barley didn't evolve these processes so we can make beer! The process mobilizes sugars from the starch supply so it can grow and survive.

Adding heat will cause enzymes to get faster and faster to a point where the enzyme unravels and become ineffective. Some will ravel back up, and become effective again, as it cools, but when starting to unravel at temperatures of 60-70C more likely the unravelling is permanent and the enzyme has "denatured" (someone, I forget who, impressed on me recently that my previous view of enzymes was too simplistic and some really do have a reversible "denaturing" mechanism - up to a point, after which they really do denature). We mash at temperatures where we get the fastest and most complete conversion before the enzyme completely denatures. Hence the "all-night" mashers don't produce worts that are all maltose and no dextrins; the conversions were done after 1 or 2 hours after which the majority of enzymes were trashed.

It looked "interesting" and probably worthy of a try, but I hear mixed reports of success, so it is probably only worth trying very carefully.

I keep trying new ideas which is probably an admission that the results I'm getting, while creating pleasant "beer", still falls short of "real" beer. So I will (for ever more it seems) keep seeking out low-alcohol beer formulations that really is indistinguishable from the "full-fat" variety.

I might try a cold mash of malt, possibly x4 what I would have used to produce a sub-1/2% ABV beer, before straining off those grains (and perhaps reusing them as an adjunct in another brew). Raising the starchy "wort" up to high mashing temperature (about 74C so any starch is converted to dextrins but not much converted to maltose) then add the crystal/caramel malts and perhaps colouring malt (chocolate, black, roast, etc.) for a 20 minute steep. Then strain again before boiling for 30 minutes and adding steep hops (80-85C) for IBUs as discussed earlier.

 

[peebee]

I'm getting very low on "low-alcohol" beer so I need to get some more on before I start drinking the alcoholic stuff 7 days a week. So I've got two brews planned, both near identical but one using this "cold mash" idea and the other a hot mash as before (as "cold mash" recipe, but with 1/4 the base malt) so I'll have a side-by-side comparison.

I'd like to try the "Wai-iti" hops as @Sadfield recommended, but I can only get 2017 hops (2-1/2 years old!) so will be using 2018 "Cobb Goldings". I have my doubts that traditional "English" hops will work in such beers, but I need to try. I'll also put aside my reliance on beta-glucan rich Rye Malt in these recipes (cold mashing does not extract much "beta-glucan") and instead will use Munich and Wheat malts as my base malt. I'll hold back the crystal and caramel malts from being added to the "cold mash" and steep them in the later "hot mash" which will provide something to further "lauter" out any left overs from the cold mash.

Brewing in a Grainfather at "full-boil-volume-mash" quantities (i.e. "no sparge"). I reckon about one-and-half to two hours cold mash (about 10-12C, not attempting to control temperature during mash), raise to 74C for 20-30 minutes for grain steep (swapping the grain in the "malt-pipe" while the water heats) then raise to boil as normal.

I couldn't get to grips with "cold mashing" to begin with. There are those calling it "cold extraction", or worse, "non-enzymatic mashing" (NEM). This would annoy me because the enzymes aren't there for brewers, they are for the seedling rising from the grain, and that would happily happen at 5-20C. But that would require conversion magnitudes slower than an all-night cold steep with ground up grain. The "cold mash" is just an extraction of soluble (ish) components from the malted grain which then goes for conversion at normal mash temperatures. I'd missed the "conversion" step in the original article, but it isn't presented very clearly. It was reckoned that cold "mashing" would extract most components from the grain, but only about 25% of potential fermentables. Agitating the steep (or recirculating the liquid bit) will drop the time for the steep to one-two hours.


I'd dug out this blog http://hornbrewing.com/blog/2019/02/10/cold-mash-series-overview-and-a-1-4-abv-saison/ that gave me a better view of how this technique is being pursued. They were hitting the dizzy heights of 1.2% ABV, so I'm not copying that!

BTW: I am aware that I'm using this thread like a "Blog". But I'm sure that is okay?

 

[peebee]

Hop rates was still causing me a little trouble (too high) despite carefully applying the "IBU/SG" ratio trick (SG as whole units such that 1.010 = 10, or "GU"; Gravity Units). It occurred to me that this "ratio" is based on an assumed attenuation, probably 75%, and these low-alcohol beers will be a lot less than that (under 30% for my last brew). So I'm going to experiment with "normalising" the SG for this ratio. So that will be (SG-FG)/3*4, only assuming what the SG and FG will be and that attenuation of 75% will be used to "normalise" the SG.

So my last brew had a IBU/SG (BU/GU) ratio of 0.394, which would be "low", but "normalised" it would be: 5.9IBU / (SG12-FG09)/3*4 = 1.475. The math is probably dodgy, but 1.475 would certainly be more bitter than I was expecting.

Dodgy? This ratio figure is only a guide at the best of times. When applied to these low-alcohol formulations the figures start losing thier resolution so can start creating some pretty extreme results. So I come along with my "normalising" idea to make these extreme results perhaps a little more useful? But if the ratio was a guide before, it's a guide "plus some" when "normalised" for these recipes. Don't get hung up on these calculations, remember they are only (hopefully) a guide.

 

[peebee]

My "cold mashing" brew day passed of okay, but with a few unexpected outcomes. I wrote up the "brew day" on another forum, replying to the guy who had introduced me to it. I'll write up here too later, but first off I want to record one particular "unexpected" outcome as a warning for anyone else thinking of attempting this process.

I'd heard that "cold mashing" would allow a lot of rubbish to wash through and burn on to the element, ruining the beer or even burning out the element. I thought I'd be immune as the mash is constantly recirculated and any rubbish gets filtered out (brewing in a Grainfather).

Wrong!

I'd have got a clue early on if I'd figured what the next picture shows me. This is after the "second mash" after stepping up the temperature from 10C (cold mash) to 72C. I'd kept back the crystal malt for this stage so there was something to recirculate against. This is the empty grain basket ("malt pipe") after the mash.

All that white stuff is denatured protein matter. With hindsight I should have figured out that the "cold mash" will have extracted the soluble proteins from the grain which at 10C would not denature and get caught in the spent grain. So the liquid extract is rich in soluble protein.

When it gets to the boil the remaining protein denatures and coagulates on the element, result …

… omelette!

Fortunately for me the boiler has a very shiny plate like element and the "omelette" peeled off before it could do any damage.

 

[peebee]

Another "error" I'd like to record so anyone interested won't make the same mistake (this one is nothing like as serious as the preceding one, but might reduce its impact?):

The original Briess article suggests only about 25% of the potential sugar extract gets carried through. So I thought as I use 1Kg of base grain for my low-alcohol beers, I'll use 4Kg in this cold mash.

Wrong!

I'd mash 1Kg at 74C and get a wort only 30% fermentable (with a low-attenuating yeast). The Briess article when it mentions 25% means 25% fermentable sugar extract (I now presume). So I ended up with a wort at SG1.020, that'll be close to 2% ABV. I could get away with half, maybe a third, of the base grain. And I'd produce far less hazardous "omelette" too.

4Kg of "cold mashed" grain does produce a very (exceptionally) grainy flavoured wort though!

 

[peebee]

… I do put aside my arguments against caramalt (aka dextrin malt) for these recipes, …

Just noticed this: I meant "Carapils" not "Caramalt". "Carapils" mashed at 74C is going to add mainly dextrin, not maltose.

 

[MrRock]

Interesting stuff thanks for posting, I read about this "cold mashing" thing a while ago but couldn't find much info on what the beer turned out like.
I'm planning to give it a go with a hazy hoppy pale ale.

Did you reuse your grain for a second mash in another beer?

 

[peebee]

… Did you reuse your grain for a second mash in another beer?

You can apparently, but I didn't. The pig (who gets the spent grain) should be happy (although she's happy with anything; smelly socks, wellington boot, your foot if you leave it in and don't complain much … ). But remember the "cold mash" ("extraction" is probably more accurate) does get out the flavour, colour, enzymes, soluble any things, (I can already personally vouch for gets out flavour and colour) and just leaves a plain "adjunct" that needs mashing (no enzymes) and will probably be just marginally more interesting than white granulated sugar. It's wasteful (debatable) but estimating too much to use, as I did, is more wasteful!

Heed my battle with over hoppy-ness. "Hoppy Pale Ale" sounds lovely, but will taste like dry autumn leaves if you are not very careful. And if you plump for really low-alcohol (<1% ABV) the hop flavour seems quite different without the alcohol.

 

[Sadfield]

Watching with interest Peebee. Trying to get my head around the pros and cons of cold mashing in a low Abv context. More malt flavour, but a dryer, less viscous beer? It's hard to gauge how it'll all balance out in the end product. Perhaps cold mash and conventional mash different elements of the grist and combine to make a final wort that has all the desired properties?

 

[peebee]

That's more or less how I thought of it. So best solution was to do a side-by-side comparison.

I've messed up this first attempt and won't be able to arrange a side-by-side: With my usual methods producing 0.5% ABV, and this "cold mash" attempt perhaps coming out at 2%. No contest? But I'm jumping the gun as the "cold mash" beer has only had time to show the barest hints of starting to ferment (I always find these recipes to be slow starters - 48-36 hours, that sort of thing).

The "omelette" incident suggests it's loaded with protein that might stand in for producing mouthfeel and body. And make them impossible to clear? And perhaps boiling wont leave any thing like enough protein in solution to do anything? And it is becoming clearer that a "hybridised" method is quite possible.

But for the moment, it's being very educational.

 

[peebee]

… But I'm jumping the gun as the "cold mash" beer has only had time to show the barest hints of starting to ferment …

Flippin' Corny kegs and their lid seals! It's already dropped to 1.012/1.011. Seal sorted, "spunding" valve on duty. 24 hours (i.e. by this evening) and fermentation will be pretty well done. But I never apply temperature control to these low-alcohol beers (the beer is at about 24C, it's a bit warm outside as you've probably noticed - only 30C up here). The yeast is probably happy with the additional food I accidentally created too, but I did cut down pitching rate (only 1/2 pack S-33).

Tastes decidedly dry at this point.

 

[peebee]

I did promise to write up the "brew day", but the way this is going it will be drunk before I get around to it. So this is a cut-and-paste of the post on the "other" site:

9AM start. Chilled (and measured) water and cold extraction grains out of fridge. Mix together in prepared Grainfather, temperature bang on 10C (all luck, not much judgement). All going swimmingly. Not quite, pH was estimated as 5.4 and its 5.7, but who knows what's going on at these temperatures. Mixing the grain is easy 'cos at these temperatures it doesn't seem to "ball".

The GF "top-plate" is fixed for these "full-boil-volume-mashes" hence it looks a bit high. After 1 hour measuring 2.4BRIX and temperature crept up to 12C (that's 1.009 in SG). Turbid wort but nothing like as turbid as the Briess article, and not green! Disappointed about latter so Kermit goes back in cupboard having missed the photo opportunity. At 1-3/4 hours 1.9BRIX (1.011). Oddly the grain bed is getting less porous so the "top-plate" disappears …

20 minutes later no change to refractometer reading so lift grain basket and start ramping temperature up to 72C.

Clean out grain basket and put back in GF. Add remaining grain for 30 minute hot mash, remove (didn't drain easy, loads of protein matter), ramp up to boil for 30 minutes. Cool and hold at 80C and add steep hops. Cool and "keg". Add dry hops in a "hop basket" (there's no point waiting until the barely existent ferment ends). The keg's gone in the fridge for an hour or two 'cos it was still a bit warm (28C).

OG 1.020. Yikes, I wasn't expecting that! I wouldn't say the wort tastes sweet, but it certainly tastes (very, very) grainy. Should be interesting? I'll go add yeast now and dig out the regulator I use as a "spunding" valve.

 

[peebee]

No recipe! … I've given up with fighting the forum software over screenshots and PDF files and replaced it all with this edited version from an earlier post:

AFON CEIDIOG (cold mash) 18L (Pale Ale)

24.5L Water (Soft acid moorland, about 45mg sulphate) chloride added (magnesium and calcium chloride), and sodium metabisulphite to eliminate chlorine. Adjusted to achieve Bru'n Water's "yellow full" profile.

Cold mash @ 10C, 2 hours (rises to 13/14C)
2.00kg Wheat Malt (Crisp, 3 EBC)
2.00kg Light Munich Malt (Crisp, 22 EBC)
Hot mash @ 72C, 30 minutes
0.25kg Crystal Malt (Crisp, 150 EBC)
0.25kg Cara Malt (Crisp, 30 EBC)
"Mash out" 78C, 5 minutes

Boil for 30 minutes (no boil hops).

23g Brook House Cobb Goldings (pellets, zero minute, steep 30 minutes at 80C, calculate 3.4 IBU)

1/2pkt Safbrew Ale (Fermentis #S-33)

20g Brook House Cobb Goldings (pellets, 4 days dry hop)

7.2ml NBS Brausol Special (finings - expecting ineffective?)

 

[peebee]

Given up trying to read refractometer, the "blue line" is now a fading band cover 2 units of BRIX! It was clear enough to get a reading yesterday so this turbidity blurring my readings is probably all yeast, excited by the warmth! But the reading doesn't seem to have dipped any more (remaining at about SG 1.010), but let's not get hasty.

Piccie of "spunding" valve, "spunding" (?) at about 12psi. Full size CO2 cylinder providing "back pressure" 'cos my little Sodastream cylinder is empty. You've seen these piccies before, but here's another (to sort of prove I'm not writing up from my imagination?):

(EDIT: Hmm, that blue "board" in the background of the piccie is a Floodgate. With all this heat and sun we've been having I'm pessimistic enough to believe I'll be needing that "floodgate" in the next few days).

 

[peebee]

Chilled to 5C after four days. After a couple more days depressurise, add finings, remove hops, re-pressurise (12psi), purge headspace, swirl to mix finings and return to fridge to keep cool. Just enough clarity to get a refractometer reading, which converted came out as SG 1.008 - actually more than I was expecting (but still 3x stronger in alcohol than I want at 1.5% ABV). Flavour good (obviously light, but very promising), and body/mouthfeel has held up better than I was beginning to fear. Attenuation is coming out as 59%.

I'm currently thinking that perhaps this "cold extraction" draws out starch in an "emulsion" (starch is generally insoluble) along with sugars that are already converted, and the second mash converts this "emulsion". I chickened out of "converting" at 74C (I used 72C) so ended up with more fermentable wort because of that? I've tried this "cold extraction" now and there's nothing to suggest I don't go back to 74C for 2nd mash next time. The reason I didn't take this approach first time is the Briess article said "cold mashing" produces a wort with no dextrins, but didn't record the amount of starch the "cold mash" would "emulsify". So it never hinted that the second mash could generate dextrins, but it certainly seems to.

Because I was only using 20g of dry hops, I chose to use the smaller 3" diameter hop balls, but 20g (pellets) still turns out to be a bit tight after soaking. That's a float for a "Fermentasaurus" that I've pushed into service for making the hop ball easily removeable from the keg.