Pale Amber Malt

[An Ankoù]

Good morning World.
Has anybody tried any of the recipes from "Old British Beers and How to Make Them" from the Durden Park Beer Circle?
They make reference to a supposedly obsolete malt called Pale Amber Malt - a diastatic malt at 30-40 ebc. I don't fancy following their suggestions for roasting my own if I can find something on the market. I'm thinking of Simpsons Imperial Malt- a little darker, but still enzymatic. Any suggestions?
I think Alsacebrew said he used at least one of these recipes, but I can't find the thread.
Happy brewing
Mike

 

[peebee]

My conclusions (which could therefore be wrong!) is a lot of "British" malt names have fallen out of favour (or have no chance of coming back in favour) because of the "American" craft-brewing <sic> movement which supports these "continental" names.

So using UK "Imperial" malt (at 45EBC) instead of Light Amber seems to me to be perfectly good. Or I'd perhaps prefer UK Light "Munich" malt (at 25-30EBC) which will certainly be more diastatic.

There was a similar discussion about all these "Cara" malts being no different to the various grades (light, medium, dark, etc.) of UK crystal malts.

 

[Zephyr259]

I've got the book and keep meaning to make the Simmon's Bitter and Whitbread Porter (both on the website funnily enough), but haven't got to them in 2 years. I was going to use Weyermann Munich II instead, it's about 20 EBC so maybe double the quantity. Then I realised that I have Weyermann Abbey malt which is the same idea as Simpson's Imperial so I'd probably use that. Abbey malt can be used up to 50% where Simpsons say Imperial can go up to 80% in dark beers. Any of the above should give a great beer I'd imagine.

Let us know how it comes out, I really need to get round to brewing these.

 

[An Ankoù]

I've got the book and keep meaning to make the Simmon's Bitter and Whitbread Porter (both on the website funnily enough), but haven't got to them in 2 years. I was going to use Weyermann Munich II instead, it's about 20 EBC so maybe double the quantity. Then I realised that I have Weyermann Abbey malt which is the same idea as Simpson's Imperial so I'd probably use that. Abbey malt can be used up to 50% where Simpsons say Imperial can go up to 80% in dark beers. Any of the above should give a great beer I'd imagine.

Let us know how it comes out, I really need to get round to brewing these.

Will do. The recommended maturation time is long, though.
Pointless trying to contact DPBC, by the way, had two email addresses in the contacts list and both my enquiries failed to be delivered.

 

[Zephyr259]

I got a couple of replies from Alex Kovacevic and then he forwarded on my question to another member. Would you like the email address I got to work? Was back in 2017 though so maybe it's broken now.

 

[An Ankoù]

I got a couple of replies from Alex Kovacevic and then he forwarded on my question to another member. Would you like the email address I got to work? Was back in 2017 though so maybe it's broken now.

That would be great. Thanks.

 

[peebee]

@An Ankoù I see you're in France. So you can ignore my "UK protectionist" post. I would encourage the use of "continental" malts; on the continent, not here in the UK!

 

[alsacebrew]

Good morning World.
Has anybody tried any of the recipes from "Old British Beers and How to Make Them" from the Durden Park Beer Circle?
They make reference to a supposedly obsolete malt called Pale Amber Malt - a diastatic malt at 30-40 ebc. I don't fancy following their suggestions for roasting my own if I can find something on the market. I'm thinking of Simpsons Imperial Malt- a little darker, but still enzymatic. Any suggestions?
I think Alsacebrew said he used at least one of these recipes, but I can't find the thread.
Happy brewing
Mike

Hi, yes I mentioned the Whitbread’s London Porter recipe from the Durden Park book, which I brew at least once a year. It is a lovely Porter. I tweak the recipe a bit though, by replacing about a quarter of the base malt with smoked malt which, once mellowed, adds a subtle complexity to the beer.
I’ve also brewed the Amber Small Beer (recipe no 1) from the same book and used a Crisp amber malt (50 ebc), it was a very good beer.
I am currently cold crashing a beer (“quaffable bitter” recipe by James Morton) in which I replaced 10% of the base malt with imperial malt. I’ve already drank a couple of pints of it straight from the FV, it is so good! It is amazingly malty and has a very gentle roastiness (for want of a better word!) to it. This was the first time I used imperial malt but I am now very tempted to brew a beer with 50% imperial and 50% MO base malt with some progress and EKGs.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi, yes I mentioned the Whitbread’s London Porter recipe from the Durden Park book, which I brew at least once a year. It is a lovely Porter. I tweak the recipe a bit though, by replacing about a quarter of the base malt with smoked malt which, once mellowed, adds a subtle complexity to the beer.
I’ve also brewed the Amber Small Beer (recipe no 1) from the same book and used a Crisp amber malt (50 ebc), it was a very good beer.
I am currently cold crashing a beer (“quaffable bitter” recipe by James Morton) in which I replaced 10% of the base malt with imperial malt. I’ve already drank a couple of pints of it straight from the FV, it is so good! It is amazingly malty and has a very gentle roastiness (for want of a better word!) to it. This was the first time I used imperial malt but I am now very tempted to brew a beer with 50% imperial and 50% MO base malt with some progress and EKGs.

Damn. I've already got six fully formulated recipes in my brewing log which I haven't had time to brew yet. Looks like that list is going to get longer.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi, yes I mentioned the Whitbread’s London Porter recipe from the Durden Park book, which I brew at least once a year. It is a lovely Porter. I tweak the recipe a bit though, by replacing about a quarter of the base malt with smoked malt which, once mellowed, adds a subtle complexity to the beer.
I’ve also brewed the Amber Small Beer (recipe no 1) from the same book and used a Crisp amber malt (50 ebc), it was a very good beer.
I am currently cold crashing a beer (“quaffable bitter” recipe by James Morton) in which I replaced 10% of the base malt with imperial malt. I’ve already drank a couple of pints of it straight from the FV, it is so good! It is amazingly malty and has a very gentle roastiness (for want of a better word!) to it. This was the first time I used imperial malt but I am now very tempted to brew a beer with 50% imperial and 50% MO base malt with some progress and EKGs.

Double damn. I hadn't heard of James Morton. Just found a copy on Amazon.fr for 6,48 euros. I need help!

 

[An Ankoù]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread (and it's not even Easter) but I'm determined to work my way through the Durden Park recipe book over the lockdown and the issue of pale amber malt keeps arising. I was using SImpson's Imperial at 40-50 ebc, but, while it's fully diastatic, it's a bit on the dark side (although it makes an excellent Simond's Bitter). Bestmalz Red-X hits the colour pretty much on the head at 28-32 ebc and it's also fully diastatic, so, as I've got a bag and a bit to use up, I'm thinking of taking some off Red IPA duty and trying it in the DP recipes. Anybody got any thoughts on the matter?
The author of the recipe book talks about using carapils and crystal malts to substiute for pale amber and brown malts. This seems crazy to me as they're caramalised malts. Again, any thoughts?

 

[chthon]

The thing is that caramel/crystal malts still contain starches, and so in the presence of base malts have real extract: Crystal Malt Experiment

Also, malt names are indeed confusing. However, there is a spectrum from pils malt to aroma 100, which uses base malt as a starting point, and which only differs in the kilning temperature, so that the colour increases, and the diastatic power decreases, but not completely disappears.

And that line is pils (lager) -> pale ale -> vienna -> munich -> dark munich -> aroma 50 -> aroma 100.

Note: I use Belgian continental names, because that is what I know.

 

[An Ankoù]

Note: I use Belgian continental names, because that is what I know.

And therein lies the problem. We have English, German, Belgian, US names and it's not clear what corresponds with which. For example in the UK, we have Mild Ale Malt at about 6-7 ebc. Over here, we have Vienna Malt at 5-6 ebc. Some English maltsters do a Vienna malt- Crisp's is 7 ebc. They are all diastatic, but can they be used interchangeably? Similarly with "caramel" and "crystal" malts, and "biscuit" and "amber" malts. If I could find a table of equivalents and comparisons, I'd be laughing.

 

[Zephyr259]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread (and it's not even Easter) but I'm determined to work my way through the Durden Park recipe book over the lockdown and the issue of pale amber malt keeps arising. I was using SImpson's Imperial at 40-50 ebc, but, while it's fully diastatic, it's a bit on the dark side (although it makes an excellent Simond's Bitter). Bestmalz Red-X hits the colour pretty much on the head at 28-32 ebc and it's also fully diastatic, so, as I've got a bag and a bit to use up, I'm thinking of taking some off Red IPA duty and trying it in the DP recipes. Anybody got any thoughts on the matter?
The author of the recipe book talks about using carapils and crystal malts to substiute for pale amber and brown malts. This seems crazy to me as they're caramalised malts. Again, any thoughts?

Nice project. I may do something similar to get an idea of what their beers are like.

What does red X taste like? A bit like a stronger Munich?

I'm with you on the carapils / crystal but, they'd be quite different from amber and brown, but then modern amber and brown are probably different anyway so it's maybe just a bit academic?

 

[An Ankoù]

Nice project. I may do something similar to get an idea of what their beers are like.

What does red X taste like? A bit like a stronger Munich?

I'm with you on the carapils / crystal but, they'd be quite different from amber and brown, but then modern amber and brown are probably different anyway so it's maybe just a bit academic?

I've never tasted a single malt munich so can't say. I think modern amber and brown are closer to the originals than crystals malts would be to amber and brown, though.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

There's a malt substitution chart on GEB website it a decent starting point. I have put one together based on that and colour EBC/Lovibond.

 

[An Ankoù]

Nice project. I may do something similar to get an idea of what their beers are like.

We should compare notes. There was also another member, Alsace Brewer, I think, who also made their beers, but I haven't seen him on the Forum for yonks.

 

[Zephyr259]

We should compare notes. There was also another member, Alsace Brewer, I think, who also made their beers, but I haven't seen him on the Forum for yonks.

I was thinking the same thing. Have to look at my brew plans. Next week is an amber lager / Belgian pal split batch. Then it's a bit vaguer so could go for DP brews.