Oxygen free or low oxygen brewing.

[jambop]

Ok I don't think I am the only brewer who is constantly seeing this method of brewing coming up in homebrewing discussions and videos.
I fully understand what is being said because oxidation is every present in normal day to day environments and it generally is not a good outcome ... just think about your car rusting away due to the effects of winter salt on the roads and oxygen. However with regard to brewing though is oxygen free brewing really the holy grail? I would like to know the opinions of brewers on here to the question. For myself when applied to homebrewing I think much of the oxygen debate is being pushed by HBS'ers who are trying to increase sales by pushing the theory that allowing beer to interact with oxygen is some sort of disaster and that you are not getting the most from your brewing. I on the other hand think that beer and oxygen coming together is part of what brewing has always been and that traditional beer styles rely on it to a certain degree to achieve what is the accepted flavour profile of that beer. By traditional beers styles I am referring to typical British beers which have never been made oxygen free in the past. I am intrigued when I hear someone say that there best bitter has improved because of oxygen free brewing ... improved or tastes different? Yes we know we do not want stale beer but is a degree of oxidation desirable? I think much of the trend is driven by none traditional barely drinkable over hopped and sometimes cloudy concoctions from over the pond myself.
Of course we want to have our beer fresh and for me here is the rub fresh does not mean oxygen free but does mean you agree your best before date. commercial brewers make beer that can be on the shelf for many months even years so they do need to reduce oxidation to the highest degree they can most homebrew on the other hand never sees more than a couple of months... certainly does not in my house anyway
Anyway I am embarking on an experiment where I will be making beer by a low oxygen method. I already store my whole grains vacuum packed but I read a paper the other day that suggested that the oxidative process starts in the mill and mash tun! How can the homebrewer avoid such a thing?... you have to make then mix the grist and the liquor. Once in the frementer the brewer can exert some control over oxidation and that I will be doing... who knows at the end of this experiment I could be eating/ drinking my own words

 

[Rwilts]

As I understand it:

1. we need oxygen to create the beer (we oxygenate the wort prior to pitching) so any efforst to reduce oxygen prior to the start of fermentation are a waste of time (IMHO).

2. I have mostly heard that very HOP heavy beers suffer due to oxygen , especially those that have a large dry hop - So i would say that this style wasnt around 20 years ago so concerns around O2 and beer were not an issue - equally traditional british styles probably dont have enough hops to be troubled by the O2.

3. I have tried squeezing the air out of my PET bottles when bottling and I havent bothered and not really seen any difference. I have closed tranfer to flushed kegs and I have simply syphoned into a keg again not much if any difference HOWEVER i dont often make very HOP heavy brews...

 

[Its 6pm somewhere]

I pressure ferment and keg via closed transfer. Low oxygen a plus but not the main reason I do it. Brewed for years in buckets and cracked the lid open when bottling with a bottle wand. Enjoyed my beer then and enjoy my beer now. I will say I get better results now with heavily hopped beers than I did in the bucket days but that could be down to better practices on my part.

 

[jambop]

As I understand it:

1. we need oxygen to create the beer (we oxygenate the wort prior to pitching) so any efforst to reduce oxygen prior to the start of fermentation are a waste of time (IMHO).

2. I have mostly heard that very HOP heavy beers suffer due to oxygen , especially those that have a large dry hop - So i would say that this style wasnt around 20 years ago so concerns around O2 and beer were not an issue - equally traditional british styles probably dont have enough hops to be troubled by the O2.

3. I have tried squeezing the air out of my PET bottles when bottling and I havent bothered and not really seen any difference. I have closed tranfer to flushed kegs and I have simply syphoned into a keg again not much if any difference HOWEVER i dont often make very HOP heavy brews...

I largely agree with most of what you are saying but the simple fact is that there are many enzyme at work other than those required to turn starch into sudars be they fermentable or otherwise. Many such enzymes being highlighted as being active during the mashing process ... don't ask me how a home brewer can avoid incorporating oxygen at mash other than being very careful when stirring and mixing the grains and liquor to avoid creating air bubbles... Thing is even boiled water has dissiloved oxygen present. I think the only really area where the brewer can make a difference is at the transfer and packaging . Even the CO2 we use to pressurise and move the beer has oxygen present. I saw a figure of 30ppm quoted for carbonation grade liquid CO2 it is a very small quantity but it is there.

 

[fluketamer]

lodo (low dissolved oxygen ) brewing is a thing and yes they are super concerned about hot side aeration. possibly because cold side oxygenation is so much easier to avoid then hot side

some things they do to avoid o2 as much as possible. is:

adding chemicals to deoxygenate mashwater. (as said above boiling water has dissolved o2 in it )
little to no stirring
mash cap on the tun
grinding grains at the last minute i think also to minimize oxidation.

i am not a lo do brewer. i dont understand it fully . like others have said if we are boiling arent we boiling off all the o2 anyway thats why we oxygenate prior to pitching. but no thats not the case . oxygen degrades everything it touches (except maybe antioxidants?) so any o2 in your wort will start to affect flavors and preservation over the long run. at least i think thats part of the idea.

theres a thread about oxygenating the starter rather than the wort to decrease dissolved o2.

its not just hoppy beers i am pretty sure it started as a german lager thing a long time ago.

unfortunately small sample experiments are not good indicators of whether or not this is valid technique .

i think the over all consensus is that it prolly is beneficial but the effort involved is high investment for homebrewers (possibly with minimal return as compared to other things like cold side oxygen avoidance. - which if you dont have you shouldnt bother with the hot side avoidance anyway)

i stir and splash and oxygenate like crazy during the boil. i like to really get the hops in contact with the wort. and i still love my beer.

 

[MashBag]

Unless you are in big hop territory I think the order of the day is 'be sensible'

 

[jambop]

Honestly think for the homebrewer cold side is probably a good area to reduce oxygen and it can be done fairly cheaply too . There is no real need for expensive gear a cheap fermzilla and corny kegs with the required connectors and tubing. I usually grind my malt while the water is heating but after that it gets fired into the Brewzilla in two batches and given a good stir. I believe that makes sure that the grains take the system to equilibrium temperature wise as fast as possible so that beta gets a fair chance to do some work if you fanny around adding a scoopful at a time it is getting fried up. After that no recirculation for 20 mins then recirculation on with minimum aeration ... best I can come up with. Then sparge as fast as the liquor will run through the grain bed but not add to much so that the grain bed is compressed. Then boil for 90 mins and chill while stirring at the last few minutes of the chill I get splashy to aerate the wort for pitching. After that you can do a lot more to cut oxygen.