Owning pub CO2 cylinders

[ScottM]

Yeah, CO2 is CO2... the food grade part actually refers to the cylinder.

Yes Carbon Dioxide is carbon Dioxide. However it has to meet EC regulations EC directive 96/77/EC. This will mainly revolve around making sure that the gas is produced to the highest purity and that the way it is produced, handled, stored and transported does not involve any contamination ie all storage vesels, piping, lubricants etc are all food grade.

It is the same as with medical gasses and diving gasses (even divers compressed air has to come from tested compressors if i am correct so as not to have any contamination, I wouldn't want to breath the air coming out of my compressor at work or for that matter use it to aerate my beer)

So no the co2 sold for industrial processes is not the same as that sold for food use.


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It certainly is at the place I get my gas from. It doesn't matter if you are getting the gas for welding or for beer/food, it is the same gas from the same storage tank dispensed from the same equipment. There is definitely a difference in the cylinders though.

The place I got it from told me about it when I queried it.

 

[ScottM]

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/BN-Army-Bl ... and-Rumors

Good read there.

 

[Geoff Norwich]

Just a quick safety notice please do not use any form of lubricant on the cylinder header. any grease or oil will combust under its own pressure and I worry about the damage to all that beer.

Same goes for ptfe. The cylinder companies get their own special version of it.

 

[graysalchemy]

Yeah, CO2 is CO2... the food grade part actually refers to the cylinder.

Yes Carbon Dioxide is carbon Dioxide. However it has to meet EC regulations EC directive 96/77/EC. This will mainly revolve around making sure that the gas is produced to the highest purity and that the way it is produced, handled, stored and transported does not involve any contamination ie all storage vesels, piping, lubricants etc are all food grade.

It is the same as with medical gasses and diving gasses (even divers compressed air has to come from tested compressors if i am correct so as not to have any contamination, I wouldn't want to breath the air coming out of my compressor at work or for that matter use it to aerate my beer)

So no the co2 sold for industrial processes is not the same as that sold for food use.


:thumb:

It certainly is at the place I get my gas from. It doesn't matter if you are getting the gas for welding or for beer/food, it is the same gas from the same storage tank dispensed from the same equipment. There is definitely a difference in the cylinders though.

The place I got it from told me about it when I queried it.

So you make the assumption that it is food grade which complies with EC directive 96/77/EC and that it is dispensed in accordance with the said directive? or have they told you that is what it is. If you search online all the major gas companies BOC etc sell food grade beverage and industrial gas so their must be a difference.

And as I said its not the impurities that are in it during manufacture it is the impurities that get into it during transport storage etc, because of non food grade pipes tanks seals lubricants etc.

 

[AZZKIKR]

It certainly is at the place I get my gas from. It doesn't matter if you are getting the gas for welding or for beer/food, it is the same gas from the same storage tank dispensed from the same equipment. There is definitely a difference in the cylinders though.

The place I got it from told me about it when I queried it.

out of interest and noticing you are also from Glasgow where do you get your gas from?

So you make the assumption that it is food grade which complies with EC directive 96/77/EC and that it is dispensed in accordance with the said directive? or have they told you that is what it is. If you search online all the major gas companies BOC etc sell food grade beverage and industrial gas so their must be a difference.

And as I said its not the impurities that are in it during manufacture it is the impurities that get into it during transport storage etc, because of non food grade pipes tanks seals lubricants etc.

Thanks for the info I honestly didn’t think it made that much of a difference. As normal I was looking into the most cost effective way of filling my cylinder. I was aware of the different options but not what actually set them both apart. Given the uphill struggle I had trying to get a cylinder in the first place I think some places may now be reluctant to fill it for me as it is not one of their own cylinders. Can you see the non food grade gas having a major impact on my home brew?

 

[graysalchemy]

Can you see the non food grade gas having a major impact on my home brew?

I would be more worried about my health, that is after all why we have food safety standards.

 

[ScottM]

So you make the assumption that it is food grade which complies with EC directive 96/77/EC and that it is dispensed in accordance with the said directive? or have they told you that is what it is. If you search online all the major gas companies BOC etc sell food grade beverage and industrial gas so their must be a difference.

And as I said its not the impurities that are in it during manufacture it is the impurities that get into it during transport storage etc, because of non food grade pipes tanks seals lubricants etc.

I never assume, assumption is the mother of all f*ckups.

I asked the question and they told me the difference is the cylinders. There is a coating inside the cylinder and the valve is female rather than male (makes it easy to differentiate). The CO2 complies with the food grade regulations, as do most CO2 supplies (seem to be in a bit of a loop here).

As per the link I supplied (did you read it?) there are very few gas suppliers who don't keep their stock to the food grade regulations, so that they can supply it as either or. My guess about the ones who DON'T stock to food grade regulations is that they simply don't supply food grade CO2. Who in there right mind would have 2 separate supplies of the same gas using the same storage and dispensing equipment only checked to different standards? It would be madness.

BOC has one supply too, it's just checked to the food grade standards of 99.9% purity...... as all other food grade suppliers are.

The point is... there is no difference in the actual gas supplied. It doesn't matter if you go to BOC and get food grade or industrial grade... it's the same CO2, from the same tank in the same standards. Your cylinder WILL be different though. Same goes with my supplier.

 

[ScottM]

It certainly is at the place I get my gas from. It doesn't matter if you are getting the gas for welding or for beer/food, it is the same gas from the same storage tank dispensed from the same equipment. There is definitely a difference in the cylinders though.

The place I got it from told me about it when I queried it.

out of interest and noticing you are also from Glasgow where do you get your gas from?

I went with express fuels, just next to Whiteinch.

Bit of discussion here...

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19123

 

[graysalchemy]

You clearly state in your original post.

Yeah, CO2 is CO2... the food grade part actually refers to the cylinder. As long as it's a food grade cylinder you can get it filled anywhere that supplies CO2.

Which I have pointed out is not true. There are differing standards of CO2 what you need to do, like you have done is ascertain that what you are buying is actually food grade, and not just rock up with a food grade cylinder and expect that it will be food grade put into the cylinder or that the cylinder makes it food grade, it clearly doesn't.

 

[AZZKIKR]

It certainly is at the place I get my gas from. It doesn't matter if you are getting the gas for welding or for beer/food, it is the same gas from the same storage tank dispensed from the same equipment. There is definitely a difference in the cylinders though.

The place I got it from told me about it when I queried it.

out of interest and noticing you are also from Glasgow where do you get your gas from?

I went with express fuels, just next to Whiteinch.

Bit of discussion here...

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19123

I kind of bumped your old thread as I had spoke to express fuels during my kegerator build.

 

[ScottM]

You clearly state in your original post.

Yeah, CO2 is CO2... the food grade part actually refers to the cylinder. As long as it's a food grade cylinder you can get it filled anywhere that supplies CO2.

Which I have pointed out is not true. There are differing standards of CO2 what you need to do, like you have done is ascertain that what you are buying is actually food grade, and not just rock up with a food grade cylinder and expect that it will be food grade put into the cylinder or that the cylinder makes it food grade, it clearly doesn't.

Are you being deliberately obtuse just to make an argument here?

CO2 is CO2, there is no such thing as CO2 for consumption. It's either CO2.... or it's not.

The difference between a place who only dispenses CO2 for industrial use and CO2 for food use is the standards they must meet in regards to the purity of the gas they are providing. This was explicitly covered in the link I provided, which I'm guessing you have ignored. It's not the CO2 that's different, it's the purity of it.

In order to dispense "food grade" CO2 the gas must be 99.9% pure. This is the case with all suppliers that I know of anyway, as I stated... as it would be madness to provide both.

So... if you walk into BOC and ask for food grade CO2 in one canister, and ask for industrial grade CO2 in another canister.... the CO2 is exactly the same, there is no difference. There is no difference in the purity either, as they only have one supply. It just so happens to meet the requirements for food grade AND exceed the requirements for industrial grade (2 birds... 1 stone etc).

This brings me to the one lone difference between asking for food grade CO2 and asking for industrial grade CO2....... the cylinder.

I doubt you would find any supplier who's CO2 doesn't meet the requirements for to be classified as food grade and yet meets the requirement for industrial. It would be a waste of resources to supply them.

 

[graysalchemy]

No I am not deliberately obtuse but your post does read that it is the cylinder and not the CO2 which needs to be food grade and i think you did not make yourself clear in you original post.

It may well be true that in fact all co2 is produced to food grade standards and stored and dispensed to those standards but someone cannot assume that it is, with out asking.

Your article does relate to the American market and may not reflect the UK. However I also read an american article that states that all the major beverage producers insist on their own standards as they do not believe that the US food standard is high enough but that is a different story.

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