Open FV's in breweries

[AdamSon]

Hi folks, it just dawned on me that breweries often leave their FV open, what is the reason for this? If infections are so easy to get then surely they would be covering up?

 

[IainM]

Hi folks, it just dawned on me that breweries often leave their FV open, what is the reason for this? If infections are so easy to get then surely they would be covering up?

I think there are two things here.
(1) Homebrewers tend to overestimate the risks of infection. The biggest source of infection isn't airbourne, but from equipment that hasn't been properly cleaned and sanitised. That said, if microbes are present, many are obligate aerophiles, so once the yeast has stripped the oxygen from the wort and a blanket of CO2 is there, then it is much harder for them to take hold.

(2) In general, breweries tend to be kept more hygienically than where homebrewers brew. They put on overalls and rubber boots when they go in, have stainless steel worksurfaces and easily cleaned flooring, rigorous cleaning protocols and routine microbiological assessments.

 

[Sadfield]

I think there are two things here.
(1) Homebrewers tend to overestimate the risks of infection. The biggest source of infection isn't airbourne, but from equipment that hasn't been properly cleaned and sanitised. That said, if microbes are present, many are obligate aerophiles, so once the yeast has stripped the oxygen from the wort and a blanket of CO2 is there, then it is much harder for them to take hold.

(2) In general, breweries tend to be kept more hygienically than where homebrewers brew. They put on overalls and rubber boots when they go in, have stainless steel worksurfaces and easily cleaned flooring, rigorous cleaning protocols and routine microbiological assessments.

Yes, even if your the most house proud of people, homes can be pretty nasty places.

I think scale plays a factor, easier for infection to take hold in smaller volumes. And the longer lag phases in homebrewing give bacteria a head start in the battle with yeast.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[TheQuokka]

While I agree that they keep their premises a lot more clean than our kitchens, I think the fact that they pitch large populations of yeast pre-prepared in virtually sterile conditions, then usually pasteurise and filter the beer also helps.

Experienced home brewers who listen to the advice and get really anal about cleaning and sanitising early on do end up with a good enough understanding of the environment to do a lot of stuff that would horrify the online community, however.

 

[serum]

From what I've read they get the fermentation over with quicker and then move to secondary tanks that are covered.

 

[AdamSon]

I suppose it makes to cover a homebrew FV as there's more risk of things falling in or it getting knocked and what not too. It just got me thinking because was given a Young's FV but there's no lid, i might just use it as a sterilising bucket to keep my equipment in whilst brewing. The more curious side of me wants to see how a brew turns out without a lid though....

 

[PeteMcG]

This is typical of Lambic brewing where the wort is left open to wild yeasts and bacteria overnight before being put into barrels for fermentation.

Ironically the most famous of Lambic breweries, Cantillon, is in the centre of Brussels so not sure how many wild yeasts are available in the inner city. Obviously it still works for them!!!

 

[geetee]

I was thinking of this the other day in the thread about sampling. I am sure they will just dip a ladle into the top to get a sample.

 

[simon12]

This demonstrates another reason [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xClXKMhcFr0[/ame]

 

[chesters-mild]

Reminds me of the Chesters Brewery in the 1960's! No overflows that I know of though, and some of the FV's were original wood.
Great video - thanks
Cheers

 

[terrym]

Homebrewers tend to overestimate the risks of infection. The biggest source of infection isn't airborne, but from equipment that hasn't been properly cleaned and sanitised.

100% behind that statement.
Lots of folk on here talk about 'infections' with apparent authority, but have probably never had one themselves, they have only read about them. Chinese whispers springs to mind.
As for open FVs in commercial breweries, this has been common practice for many many years and if it hadn't worked brewers would have found another way to brew beer.

 

[terrym]

While I agree that they keep their premises a lot more clean than our kitchens, .

Anyone who has a less than clean kitchen should be far more worried about food poisoning than whether their beer will become infected or not.

 

[Covrich]

This demonstrates another reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xClXKMhcFr0

That looks like my attempt at shepherds pie

 

[Robin54]

Your more likely to get an infection in a hospital than in your beer

 

[Leon103]

Fermentation is usually done within a few days before being covered.

 

[photek1000]

This demonstrates another reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xClXKMhcFr0

1000 lbs of yeast, that's a lot of 10g packs to open :-)

 

[Sadfield]

I suppose it makes to cover a homebrew FV as there's more risk of things falling in or it getting knocked and what not too. It just got me thinking because was given a Young's FV but there's no lid, i might just use it as a sterilising bucket to keep my equipment in whilst brewing. The more curious side of me wants to see how a brew turns out without a lid though....

More fruity esters, apparently. It's not as straight forward as leaving a lid off though. What hasn't been picked up on is that fermenter geometry is different, being wider and flatter than your conventional homebrew FV. So I'm guessing the flavour benefit of lid off does not outway the protection against errant fruit flies etc for the homebrewer. As can be seen from that great time lapse sequence, the brew is transferred before the krausen has fully dropped, something that most homebrewers don't do. Agree that infections are rare, and mostly due to issues before this point, but if you are going to get an infection from something entering your beer, it'll be after this point.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[BeerCat]

Do they not pasteurise it before selling? I guess they are using air filters as well to keep the air clean. Love those square tanks.

 

[Sadfield]

Do they not pasteurise it before selling? I guess they are using air filters as well to keep the air clean. Love those square tanks.

Was just thinking about what people class as infection in beer. Is it viewed as a fermenter drain poor situation? or the low level infections that will change a beer in a bottle 6-12 months down the line? I'm guessing the second is unavoidable and partly why some beer is pasteurized.

Lots of folk on here talk about 'infections' with apparent authority, but have probably never had one themselves, they have only read about them.

Yeah, I'm the same STDs. Still bag it up though.[emoji1]



Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[terrym]

Do they not pasteurise it before selling? I guess they are using air filters as well to keep the air clean. Love those square tanks.

My understanding is that modern breweries microfilter their beer rather than pasteurise when its going to for keg or bottle. I assume that cask beer and naturally conditioned bottled beer is not pasteurised (or filtered?) because its a live product. Anyone know different?

And anyone who has not been on a tour of a traditional brewery should do so. Whilst the brewing areas are kept clean it's not operating theatre clean. Some breweries are very old and its almost impossible to keep them scrupulously clean.