On the Rocks Cider kit - very slow

[nigel6]

I have made a few trial ciders from concentrate in small quantities which have turned out quite good and have generally finished primary fermentation in about 10 - 12 days. On Monday I started an On the Rockers apple cider 40l kit which seems to be fermenting very slowly in that it bubbles only every 5 minutes and seems to be far less active than the concentrates I did in the demijohns. I dont use any supplementary heating so it is subject to temperature changes as it sits in the lounge.

Should I be worried about this brew and should I just leave it to go at its own pace.

ps. I have ordered a heater belt to put on the fermentation bucket.

 

[RobWalker]

40L? I hope you mean 40 pint/23 liter, or you have your answer...lol.

is it fermenting, is there foam on top? hydrometer changes? if so it's alright, airlock action is a relatively sound sign of fermentation, but by no means the be all and end all.

do yourself a favour and wire a thermostat into your brew belt too. that way you can keep your beer cider and wine at optimum fermentation temperature!

 

[nigel6]

Sorry yes I mean 40 pint never did like metric. I didnt take a reading at the start (idiot) so i cant really make any comparison. I have checked to make sure all the seals are tight and had a peep yesterday and there isnt really any foam on top of the brew. I suspect its temperature change that isnt really letting it go and I hope the belt will help. Can you explain how to put a thermostat on the belt please>

 

[ScottM]

What sort of temperature is it sitting at?

If the temp is OK then chances are it's just not sealed properly, perfectly normal for plastic bins :)

I don't remember seeing a lot of action on the top of my kit when I made it

 

[nigel6]

Overnight the temperature can drop to about 14 and during the day the central heating will bring it up to 19 or 20.

 

[ScottM]

Yeah it's going to take a while at those levels. The trouble is that even though the temps will creep up, the FV will take a LOT longer to stabilise. By the time the FV is up to 20 degrees, the room temp will probably be dropping and thus the FV will start to follow.

Something to regulate the temperature better is definitely required. You really need at least a constant 18 degrees to see the fermentation finishing in an acceptable time.

 

[nigel6]

Thanks ScottM

Can I assume that it will be ok but that it will take considerably longer than the 10 -12 days to ferment so I should just leave it and see what happens?

 

[ScottM]

Thanks ScottM

Can I assume that it will be ok but that it will take considerably longer than the 10 -12 days to ferment so I should just leave it and see what happens?

I can't say for sure, it may be more prone to stalling etc. If the yeast don't get a proper chance to get going they might slowly die off etc.

Only one way to find out

 

[nigel6]

Fitted the heater belt this morning and the temp gauge on the fv read 20 externally this afternoon but still no bubble activity. I will leave it on overnight and if it is still inactive in the morning is it worth me pitching more yeast?

 

[ScottM]

Fitted the heater belt this morning and the temp gauge on the fv read 20 externally this afternoon but still no bubble activity. I will leave it on overnight and if it is still inactive in the morning is it worth me pitching more yeast?

The fermentation may still be going on, if the bucket doesn't have 100% seal (which is often the case) then you may not see any bubbler activity at all.

I would give it till the weekend, then check the gravity with a hydrometer. If the gravity is still high then I would probably add some more yeast.

 

[nigel6]

Took a reading today and it is standing at 1.005 which looks like it has been going fine as you say. It's a bit frustrating that the seal may be poor but at the end of the day the reading is what counts. I will leave it for another 48 hours at least and take another reading and then decide what to do with it. The instructions say bottle if under 1000 for 2 consecutive readings so will take your advice and leave well alone for a while.

 

[ScottM]

Took a reading today and it is standing at 1.005 which looks like it has been going fine as you say. It's a bit frustrating that the seal may be poor but at the end of the day the reading is what counts. I will leave it for another 48 hours at least and take another reading and then decide what to do with it. The instructions say bottle if under 1000 for 2 consecutive readings so will take your advice and leave well alone for a while.

Yeah definitely don't be in a hurry to do anything. Personally I would leave it until at least the weekend, that way you know it's finished for sure. If you have another FV I would transfer into that, leaving behind the sediment, and THEN add the flavour sachet. Not having a second FV will make it very difficult to mix in the flavour sachet without disturbing all the dead yeast. If you do though, transfer into it add the sachet, mix and leave for another week. This will let everything mix nicely and any leftover sediment will drop. It will also give time for the yeast to clean up any of the mess that's been created during the fermentation process.

From there I would transfer into a clean/sterile FV (Your primary) and add the sugar before bottling.

Patience really is the key difference between OK and fantastic

 

[nigel6]

Thanks ScottM. I do have another FV with a bottler attachment so will rack it off at the weekend if it is at or below 1000 and add the flavouring. The instructions say to add the flavouring and a further 5oz of sugar and then bottle immediately. If I let the brew stand in a second FV for a week how do I then add the priming sugar without disturbing the second sediment or should I put say a teaspoon of sugar in each bottle as I bottle?

 

[mattrickl06]

My version of this "Wrongbow" went from 1040 to 0997 in 9 days.

I batch primed in sedondary with about 180g of caster sugar which absolutely went mad when bottled, i am surprised none of them exploded.

I would go with around 150g for a nice bubbly refreshing drink :

 

[ScottM]

Thanks ScottM. I do have another FV with a bottler attachment so will rack it off at the weekend if it is at or below 1000 and add the flavouring. The instructions say to add the flavouring and a further 5oz of sugar and then bottle immediately. If I let the brew stand in a second FV for a week how do I then add the priming sugar without disturbing the second sediment or should I put say a teaspoon of sugar in each bottle as I bottle?

Just clean out your primary and do a second racking into that.

The way I do it is to add 200g of sugar to a cup and then pour around 1/2 a cup of boiling water into it to dissolve. Once fully dissolved I pour it into the bottling bucket (in your case the primary FV cleaned and sterilised). I then rack from the secondary in on top of the sugar. This leaves behind any second sediment and gives you a fresh bucket to work from. Once transferred I then give everything a really good stir, being careful not to splash, in order to make sure the sugar is fully dispersed. I then immediately get on with the bottling.

If you really need to use the tap that's on your secondary bucket then I would first rack without the priming sugar/boiling water, clean out the secondary and sterilise it so that you can use it. Get the priming sugar/boiling water into the newly cleaned bucket with the tap. Transfer into it and just pour the leftovers on top (no need to worry about sediment).

Bit of messing around but you will know in future to start off with the bucket with the tap

 

[ScottM]

My version of this "Wrongbow" went from 1040 to 0997 in 9 days.

I batch primed in sedondary with about 180g of caster sugar which absolutely went mad when bottled, i am surprised none of them exploded.

I would go with around 150g for a nice bubbly refreshing drink :

I think the reason you had this issue was because of using caster sugar. It being so fine and powdery would mean that 180g would work out a lot more fermentables than 180g of normal table sugar.

I could be wrong but I've always primed cider with 200g and had perfect results. There is very little body in cider so overshooting is unlikely.