Off flavour from hot break

[soupdragon]

Hi all

I've read several times that hot break can impart various off flavours in our final beer.....
Can anybody actually list them? I have a presistent background flavour in my beers since going to extract/partial mash. It's hard to describe but I've noticed that when I allow more hot break into my fermenter, the " flavour " gets stronger. My equipment is all in good condition and I've never suffered from infection before so I'm sure it's not that. Also, a kit that I did between the other brews has turned out free of my " flavour ".
I don't filter the wort post boil, I usually just pour through a large colander into my F.V. If I knew for certain what flavours that people report from hot break, it would be a great help :thumb:

Cheers Tom

 

[Aleman]

Soapy :hmm:

 

[soupdragon]

Ah, not that then I thought it might have been the break as it's stronger when more break gets through.......
Mind you my taste buds might be playing up though. Is it possible to extract harsh flavours from over boiling the hops? Clutching at straws here

Cheers Tom

 

[soupdragon]

Had another thought.......
With my last brew I left my stockpot 3/4 covered during the boil in an effort to get a better boil but the prevoius one was left uncovered. Could it be dms I'm tasting? With regard to my uncovered boil, would a simmering boil not be enough to drive off the dms and with my last, would condensation on the lid dripping back into the brew cause more of a problem?

Cheers Tom

 

[robsan77]

if it tastes like cooked veg.

 

[soupdragon]

It's really hard to describe. Sometimes I think it's like stewed veg then other times it's like a damp cardboard flavour. I know there has been some discussion about hot side aeration being a myth but I've read that it seems to effect the US malts more than ours. The malt I've used up to now has been Youngs pale malt from a 3kg bag. I presume that it's british malt? I've got some Maris Otter for my next brew, not sure if it'll make any difference tho.
The only thing I'm sure of at the moment is that, the more break material that I allow into the fermanter, the stronger the taste seems to get.

Cheers Tom

 

[Sean_Mc]

HERES a list of common off flavours that may help

 

[highwayman]

I have had some spoilt beers in the past....I have found your list very useful indeed :clap: Thanks Sean :thumb:

 

[soupdragon]

HERES a list of common off flavours that may help

Hi

I've seen that list myself and after re reading it I'm inclined to think the flavour might be closer to astringent than anything else. Up to now I've been batch sparging and have been quite rough when stirring the grain with the liquor.
For my next brew I'm going to try ( don't laugh ) brew in a bag. Filling my stockpot with mash liqour and not sparging should help eliminate it IF that is the cause of my problem......
I've read so many times that allowing the hot break into the fermenter isn't as bit an issue as it's made out to be. Thinking back to my previous brews, the last one suffered quite badly from the taste but I also had problems with my home made lauter tun and ended up having to disturb what little grain bed that had formed just to get any wort to flow into the boiler. I ended up with quite a lot of spent grain and various " bits " going into the boiler and subsequently into the fermenter. Maybe I've been blaming the hot break when it's simple sloppy brewing on my part?
So I'm hoping that my next brew should be a lot " tidier ". Any thoughts?.............

Cheers Tom

 

[robsan77]

do you return the first runnings to the mash tun?

 

[soupdragon]

Simple answer...... no. I fitted a 5 ltr bucket with a tap then drilled tons of small holes ( can't remember the size ) in a 2nd bucket and fitted that inside the 1st then tipped the mash in. It didn't work very well and hardly got any run off so I ended up having to disturb the mash to get any wort through at all. As a result quite a bit of fine grain ended up in the boiler :x

Cheers Tom

 

[Sean_Mc]

When fly sparging it takes me a good 40min and when draining from the boiler I use my spent hops as a filter, it usually takes 25min for a 25ltr brew to fully drain. :hmm:

 

[soupdragon]

Mine was just dead stop. I got about 2 ltrs through in 15 mins so it would have taken best part of 3 hours to filter, that's if the flow rate remained constant If this voile bag can stop the fine particles of grain from getting in the boiler I'll use it to filter post boil to see how it handles the break too. I'm keeping my fingers crossed with this, I've been pulling my hair out over this flavour.............

Cheers Tom

 

[soupdragon]

Hi all

I've been reading up on the effect of allowing excessive hot break material into the fermenter. Some reports say ( and many people here too ) that it's not an issue yet others have reported off flavours. I've posted here on a few occasions and had some useful help, however my off flavour persists.
I stumbled upon an article on Black Cat Brewery's blog about lipids and their effect on flavours in beer

http://blackcatbrewery.blogspot.com/2009/06/lipids.html

I might have read it too quickly or miss understood ( more likely ) the information there but it seems that the more turbid the wort, the more lipids are present. These are usually removed by filtering the hot break material post boil. Now as my method usually allows virtually every scrap of break into my fermenter it's got me thinking. My brew before last didn't get anywhere as much break in the fermenter and my off flavour was nowhere near as strong and my malt extract brews had even less ( flavour and hot break ).
Can some of the more knowledgeable members have a read of the blog and let me know if this could be my problem?

Cheers Tom

 

[soupdragon]

Had a few more thoughts on this flavour....
Just had a pint of my latest brew. Having just come back from having a pint of Abbot in my local " spoons ", my brew tastes quite similar to it. Is there anything perculiar to abbot that gives it it's flavour?

Cheers Tom

 

[soupdragon]

Don't know if this info will be of any use to anyone but..........

Not long ago I did my 1st BIAB ( Brew In A Bag ). I found the whole process much easier than my more usual method and it saved quite a bit of time.
The most important thing for me tho is the fact that my " off " flavour seems to have vanished. Now I can actually taste the malt and the bitterness from the hops. The only thing I can deduce from this is that excessive amounts of break material really can impart strange flavours in a beer. Maybe it was the ton of break that I was allowing into my fermenter that was the issue and using the BIAB method has eliminated this for me. Either way I'm now a happy and the £2 I spent on the voile square was the best investment I've made in a long while

Cheers Tom