Not getting enough sharpness from keg/brew

[onemanorthree]

So I bought a 5ltr Stainless Steel keg & ball lock tap with co2 gas and regulator.
Kit can bee seen in this thread Stainless Steel kegs

The issue is that I'm not really getting great carbonation. I'm using a 16oz canister (but also have soda-stream).
I have a 30psi regulator but am not 100% sure what spi I should be using.

For the 5ltr keg I put 15g of priming sugar and leave it for about a week, the set the psi to what pulls best out of the tap, usally about 8.
Tap is a ball lock tap, which seems like it's just totally open or close, difficult to control, and the poring head is very short and fat so
beer seems to just fly into the glass. When it's poured I notice it's more like cask ale, very little carbonation (althought good head)
and a little warm, even though I have it in the fridge at 5 degrees.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here?

 

[Session]

Heya! What temperature are you carbonating at?

When I carbonate a beer I have a look at how many volumes of CO2 I need or want for that style (check the BJCP guidelines if you’re not sure), then set my spunding valve to whatever pressure I need to attain that volume of dissolved CO2 based on the temperature at which I am fermenting.

There are lots of pressure charts available online, here’s one I found after a quick google. Annoyingly it is in ‘F rather than ‘C, but I’m sure you can convert them so it’s usable.

 

[Banbeer]

So I bought a 5ltr Stainless Steel keg & ball lock tap with co2 gas and regulator.
Kit can bee seen in this thread Stainless Steel kegs

The issue is that I'm not really getting great carbonation. I'm using a 16oz canister (but also have soda-stream).
I have a 30psi regulator but am not 100% sure what spi I should be using.

For the 5ltr keg I put 15g of priming sugar and leave it for about a week, the set the psi to what pulls best out of the tap, usally about 8.
Tap is a ball lock tap, which seems like it's just totally open or close, difficult to control, and the poring head is very short and fat so
beer seems to just fly into the glass. When it's poured I notice it's more like cask ale, very little carbonation (althought good head)
and a little warm, even though I have it in the fridge at 5 degrees.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here?

Ideally as you are carbonating using sugar you will need it to be in a warm room for around 2 weeks and then if using the tap in the tread that just clicks on the out/liquid post you will only need around 2psi to serve once you've vented the pressure from carbing if that makes sense. I have the same tap but I force carb and I just set my regulator to 2psi turn the gas on for a very quick burst and off again, i'm talking 1 second max and the beer will trickle out even with the tap on full but only takes about 20 seconds to pour a pint, if you find it gushes out you can release the pressure with the pressure relief valve.

 

[onemanorthree]

I am carbonating with priming sugar, is the amount of 15g per 5ltrs correct?
I'm carbonating it at about room temp, so 20 degrees.
I had a way higher psi on the regulator, so I think that might be one issue.
I'm also only priming for like 5 days, so that also might be another issue.

When you say force carb, is that as well as priming? I'm not clear on who it works to be honest.
Is there a way to carbonate without priming using this system?

Also, I dont know how to set the regulator to a psi, I didnt know this was configurable, can you let me know how please.

 

[MickDundee]

I am carbonating with priming sugar, is the amount of 15g per 5ltrs correct?
I'm carbonating it at about room temp, so 20 degrees.
I had a way higher psi on the regulator, so I think that might be one issue.
I'm also only priming for like 5 days, so that also might be another issue.

When you say force carb, is that as well as priming? I'm not clear on who it works to be honest.
Is there a way to carbonate without priming using this system?

Also, I dont know how to set the regulator to a psi, I didnt know this was configurable, can you let me know how please.

What type of beer is it? Most pale non-British styles are beat around the 2-2.5 volumes of CO2 range. For 2 volumes of CO2 you’d need about 23g sugar and for 2.5 volumes you’d be adding 33g so yes you are under carbing.

If you are setting the regulator to 8PSI, how king are you leaving it like this? I’m no expert but I would expect that it would reduce the pressure in the minikeg and let some CO2 escape and therefore reducing the carbonation.

 

[onemanorthree]

I thought with minikegs you only used half the required priming sugar?

I'm not sure what you mean about the second paragraph, I'm very new to this so have now idea about the diff'
between levels of psi and if I turn the tap off overnight etc.

 

[honeymonster]

I thought with minikegs you only used half the required priming sugar?

I think that only applies to the other style of mini keg, like the kind you buy in the supermarket full of beer, not the kind you have. They cant take the same level of pressure.

I've got a couple of the 10L Stainless kegs of the type you have and the soda stream bottle and I'm currently experimenting with force carbing without the sugar. It's going to take me a few batches to get it right but I'll get there in the end!

 

[Banbeer]

I am carbonating with priming sugar, is the amount of 15g per 5ltrs correct?
I'm carbonating it at about room temp, so 20 degrees.
I had a way higher psi on the regulator, so I think that might be one issue.
I'm also only priming for like 5 days, so that also might be another issue.

When you say force carb, is that as well as priming? I'm not clear on who it works to be honest.
Is there a way to carbonate without priming using this system?

Also, I dont know how to set the regulator to a psi, I didnt know this was configurable, can you let me know how please.

I've only used the 5ltr Mini kegs from the supermarket and fitted a Party Star Deluxe C02 tap the carbonation sugar for those was 12 - 15g but not sure what yours will be. Recently I upgraded to Corny kegs so I can't offer you a definitive answer but I've just spent 5 - 10 minutes looking on You Tube and there's loads of information on there. As to force carbing you can't go above 20psi because the PRV will let out the C02 at a higher rating. As for setting the desired psi there should be a fairly large black knob that you can turn and you will hear the C02 going into the keg and the gauge going up say from 0 - 10psi depending on how much you turn the knob. Before pouring your drink you need to release the pressure in the keg using the PRV and then set it to between 2 - 5psi with that kind of tap. If you need any more advise then a picture of your set up will be needed so we can see exactly what you have.

 

[MickDundee]

I thought with minikegs you only used half the required priming sugar?

I'm not sure what you mean about the second paragraph, I'm very new to this so have now idea about the diff'
between levels of psi and if I turn the tap off overnight etc.

The easy kegs (like the ones in the supermarket) that cost about £7 brand new and don’t hold much pressure can only handle about 15-20g of priming sugar. The ones you have cost £50+ each for decent ones and can hold a lot more pressure. The Kegland ones that BrewKegTap Sell are pressure rates up to 45psi.

By my second paragraph, and I have no experience of using regulators etc so I might be wrong, is that if you have enough CO2 for decent carbonation and then reduce the pressure via the regulator, it will reduce the CO2 in the headspace and to compensate some of the CO2 will come out of the solution and therefore reducing carbonation levels.

 

[honeymonster]

If you need any more advise then a picture of your set up will be needed so we can see exactly what you have.

There is a link to the exact kit in the original post.

 

[xozzx]

@onemanorthree Here are my suggestions:
I would not use priming sugar as it will result in more trub (dead yeast etc) in the bottom of the keg. Use the sodastream bottle to force carbonate the beer as below:

-Fill the keg with beer from the fermenter.
-Attach the CO2 cylinder and flush the top of the keg with CO2 (pressure up and pull the pressure relief valve pin) Do this a few times. This will remove any air (oxygen)
-pressure up to about 10psi (depends on the beer type and temperature but this is a good average value). The pressure is set using the black wheel on the regulator, rotating clockwise increases the pressure. Note that if you rotate it anti-clockwise the pressure dial will not decrease as the CO2 pressure in the keg is not decreasing until the beer absorbs the CO2, however the set pressure will decrease.
-Check for leaks.
-Put the keg in the fridge with gas still connected, leave for about 2 weeks
-It is likely you will get a lot of foam as there is no pressure reduction before the tap. This can be fixed by getting a flow control tap or using about 3m of 3/16" pipe from the keg to the tap.

 

[Banbeer]

There is a link to the exact kit in the original post.

Yeah, I had seen that, thanks , but couldn't work out how they didn't know how to increase the pressure so was wondering if that was just an example of what they had.

 

[onemanorthree]

Thanks for the advise on non-priming sugar method but I just don't think I'd have to room to keep it in the fridge for two weeks.
I'd really need to look at another fridge in the shed for that or something before I'd get away with it. Also I'd only be able to do one 5ltr
at a time as I only have one regulator. I sounds like to need a step up in my kit to begin the process of forced C02.
I think I'll look at priming with 30gs of priming sugar even though there will be more trub.

I also got a tap that doesnt have the flow control, any idea why I would have been sold this one instead of one with flow control?
Is there an insert I can get for that tap to give it a better spout as that one is very short and wide.

 

[onemanorthree]

I've got a couple of the 10L Stainless kegs of the type you have and the soda stream bottle and I'm currently experimenting with force carbing without the sugar. It's going to take me a few batches to get it right but I'll get there in the end!

Can you let me know what you're trying. Will you have to also leave this for 2 weeks in the fridge to get right?

 

[onemanorthree]

Anybody have any opinion on this method?
I have this exact setup.

 

[Banbeer]

This is what I do on my 19Ltr corny keg but not sure what your PRV (pressure release valve) is regulated at. and not sure why he's changing the gas and liquid disconnects around as I don't need to on my cornies? Try it exactly as described in the Vid if this is the exact kit that you have, keeping it in the fridge allows the C02 to absorb into the beer a lot better, the colder the better but before pouring you have to let the pressure out using the PRV and then set your serving pressure as I said in a previous post and as in the Vid.

 

[onemanorthree]

I think he changes it around because the tube goes into the beer only from the tap connection, the connection where the regulator is doesnt have tube going into the beer, just goes into the keg. I have a 30psi regulator.

 

[honeymonster]

Can you let me know what you're trying. Will you have to also leave this for 2 weeks in the fridge to get right?

No problem. I'm trying to burst carbonate. Basically setting the regulator as high as it will go and leaving it for a day or two.
The reason it's more of an experiment is that all the burst carbonation charts are based on a 19L corny keg and being able to go up to 40psi. My sodastream regulator seems to top out at about 25.

Conventional wisdom would say that a smaller volume would carb much quicker than a larger one but the smaller surface area offered by the stainless mini kegs vs corny keg obviously plays a part too.

It's a middle ground between the low and slow and shake methods.

I've got a couple batches on the go now so I can play with one keg without having to drink it at the same time

 

[foxbat]

Anybody have any opinion on this method?
I have this exact setup.

That's the setup you have? No wonder you're just pouring foam and getting a flat beer. Here's your two best options.

1. Remove the black plastic disconnect shown in the video and use this drop-in replacement. Job done in one step and your setup remains neat and tidy.

2. Buy enough John guest fittings and adapters so that you can get 2 meters of 3/16 beer line in between the black disconnect and the tap. You'll need a male thread to 3/8 adapter, female thread to 3/8 adapter, two inline 3/8 to 3/16 reducers, some 3/8 line and 2 meters of 3/16 line. This is the approach we use in kegerators/keezers because we've got the space to tuck away all those lines and adapters. It would look messy on your counter top.

Flow control taps have already been discussed. I used to have them and now have balanced lines instead.

 

[xozzx]

1. Remove the black plastic disconnect shown in the video and use this drop-in replacement. Job done in one step and your setup remains neat and tidy.

Never seen them before but that looks the perfect solution for preventing foaming without replacing the tap.

For burst carbonating I wouldnt bother swapping the gas to the liquid out post. With a mini keg you can easily shake it about to get the CO2 into solution. Burst carbonating at 30psi (or as close as you can ), shaking regularly and keeping it cold for at least 24hr is probably your best solution. After 24 hr back the regulator off, bleed the keg down and set the reg back to about 7-10 psi and leave it to settle for another 24 hours, you will probably have to bleed the pressure back a few times.

Then use the adapter foxbat posted otherwise you'll get a pint of foam.