No Chill- the bad bits, what are they ?

[MashBag]

A MJ stainless mesh spider with keep hold of 99% of hop pellets.

 

[The Baron]

Well devils advocate says that no chill means not chilling and cooling naturally so both processes class as no chill

 

[Frisp]

So In summary.
in response to my original question , downsides are minimal
as long as

I either use a good hop spider or large hop bags and remove all hops post boil.

If using cubes wait until wort is under 80C before cubing. and ensure the cube is completely filled with no spare airspace.

If I leave it in the kettle overnight there may be slightly more risk of infection but there are many who manage to take this route sucessfully.

Thank you all for your guidance

 

[The Baron]

Do make sure you sanitise well whether it be FV or Cube just as you would normally

 

[DocAnna]

Late to the party here - (I'm not on the site as often as I used to be)

Downsides of no chill include
Infection - which is inevitable but may not be undesirable or adversely affect flavour. Irrespective of sanitation, you will have higher bacteria counts in your beer since boiling doesn't fully sterilise, and there will be air contact on transfer or leaving in the boiler.
Oxidation hot side - critically from boil down to about 70°C when oxygen from air will oxidise hop compounds and other compounds in your beer.

Both of these will occur even if you leave the wort in the boiler since as the headspace cools, the pressure drops and draws in air. Transfer to a cube will also introduce both contamination and air which are unavoidable in a homebrew setting. If you could transfer to a bag in a box type container that expanded as filled, and do so through a sealed transfer then that would minimise the issue.

However... in both cases the impact may be minimal at a small batch size that doesn't need a long shelf life, or if lower in hop compounds. Some beers even benefit from all this What's Old Is New: Coolships in American Craft Brewing

 

[MashBag]

If I leave it in the kettle overnight there may be slightly more risk of infection but there are many who manage to take this route sucessfully.

I don't think there is a enormous infection risk with either method, I can't help but think transferring it to anything anywhere must elevate the risk.

 

[Frisp]

Oxidation hot side - critically from boil down to about 70°C when oxygen from air will oxidise hop compounds and other compounds in your beer.

So Im guessing this is where reducing the exposure time to oxidization, by rapidly cooling the wort, may have a slight advantage?

 

[The Baron]

Depends which expert you read/believe re HSA.
There are many experts who say it does not affect the beer at all and verges on being a myth just like the experts who believe in it.
I let my brews cool naturally and never has a issue so guess which side of the camp I am on

 

[foxy]

The way I understand it is if you transfer into a cube after boiling when there is no oxygen present after squeezing the air out of the cube, or filling to the brim then it cools in an oxygen-free environment.

 

[Sadfield]

My main concern would be less predictable hop utilisation, the potential for DMS production and less efficient cold break resulting in not removing lipids as quickly. All little things that can add up, unnecessary when rapid cooling saves time and is pretty efficient with uk water temperatures.

The other thing that gets ignored is the impact of the extra time at temperature on flavour and colour, as with any cooking process. If you baked two loaves of bread, removed one to a cooling rack, leaving the other in the oven whilst it cooled down to room temperature, it would result in two different loaves.

I'd much rather end the boil with the highest possible degree of control and predictability.

Even brulosophy.com managed to spot a difference on this one.

 

[foxy]

Hop utilisation is an issue but either timing or the Argon method tries to remedy that IBUs predictions are well off anyway.
DMS was one of my concerns but seems to be unfounded amongst those who carry out 'no chill' I just presume excess DMS gets scrubbed during fermentation. All the break forms in the bottom of the cube just as it would in a kettle, giving the brewer a good opportunity to siphon off the clear wort leaving the break material behind. I think it is the only option for those where water is scarce or who have a conscience about wasting water, apart from putting a rainwater tank in and a pump. I have a 6000-litre tank close to where I brew so I use that and the water gets returned to the tank.

 

[Sadfield]

All the break forms in the bottom of the cube just as it would in a kettle, giving the brewer a good opportunity to siphon off the clear wort leaving the break material behind.

Multiple sources suggest that rapid cooling is required for cold break formation. Palmer's How To Brew page 84, for example. Or, this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/amp/6rhVOJuq6C

 

[foxy]

Multiple sources suggest that rapid cooling is required for cold break formation. Palmer's How To Brew page 84, for example. Or, this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/amp/6rhVOJuq6C

They, obviously have never done it.

 

[foxy]

A good example is Fresh Wort Kits, a huge business over here. All made using no chill and the heat of the wort sanitising the cubes.

 

[Sadfield]

A good example is the hundreds of thousands of breweries worldwide that rapidly chill wort, instead of filling their FV's with boiling wort.

A hundred or so aussie homebrew shops selling fresh wort kits existing doesn't mean it's the optimal way of cooling wort.

Statistically, rapid cooling is the prefered method.

 

[samale]

My advice is experiment and try both methods. Asking a question like this will result in various opinions. Similar to the 30 min Vs the 60 min boil.

 

[Sadfield]

Asking a question like this will result in various opinions.

It shouldn't, the OP asked for very specific opinions.

However im not hearing anything about the downsides of No Chill. What are the downsides, if any?

 

[foxy]

A good example is the hundreds of thousands of breweries worldwide that rapidly chill wort, instead of filling their FV's with boiling wort.

A hundred or so aussie homebrew shops selling fresh wort kits existing doesn't mean it's the optimal way of cooling wort.

Statistically, rapid cooling is the prefered method.

But the OP hasn't the option of rapid cooling.

 

[Sadfield]

But the OP hasn't the option of rapid cooling.

I was going to make an imersion chiller, but im very much being drawn toward No Chill.

Looks like an option to me. Regardless, their question was specifically about the negatives of No Chill.

 

[samale]

It shouldn't, the OP asked for very specific opinions.

Fair point.