Cheshire Cat
Landlord.
Nick a question on mash and boil times. I've been AG for about 8 years and followed Graham Wheelers book stating 90 minutes for both mashing and boiling so why do you do 60 minutes? Thanks.
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@Cheshire Cat
Dunno, read it somewhere and a lot of people on here do 60min. Pretty sure I read that 90% of conversion is done in the first 20 minutes of the mash
As for the boil, 60mins is more than enough to impart the bitterness I want from the hops, sterilise everything and get rid of DMS. Any more than 60 results in way to much boil off and having to dilute the wort to get the right gravity
Dunno, read it somewhere and a lot of people on here do 60min. Pretty sure I read that 90% of conversion is done in the first 20 minutes of the mash
As for the boil, 60mins is more than enough to impart the bitterness I want from the hops, sterilise everything and get rid of DMS. Any more than 60 results in way to much boil off and having to dilute the wort to get the right gravity
I also started with GW and did 90 and 90 but having read stuff on here resorted to 60 and 60. Funny enough was revisiting GW tonight and a lot of things make a lot more sense now I have 18 months under my belt but I have to say I wasn't convinced by the reasons he cites for the longer boil and mash times.
Cheshire Cat
Landlord.
Boiling for 60 minutes I get but won't a 60 minute mash reduce your efficiency and lower the OG?
I'm currently reading "Simple Homebrewing" by Drew Beechum & Denny Conn;
They advocate 30mins each for mash and boil, citing (and I'd heard #1 before)
1. That modern malts are generally so well modified that extended mash times are not required,
2. When it comes to the boil homebrewers can afford to add a few more hops to get the same IBU's as a longer boil (while in a commercial setup you're trying to reduce costs wherever you can)
I plan to try this in my next brew, along with a full volume BIAB mash (the aim being to simplify my brew day
)
They advocate 30mins each for mash and boil, citing (and I'd heard #1 before)
1. That modern malts are generally so well modified that extended mash times are not required,
2. When it comes to the boil homebrewers can afford to add a few more hops to get the same IBU's as a longer boil (while in a commercial setup you're trying to reduce costs wherever you can)
I plan to try this in my next brew, along with a full volume BIAB mash (the aim being to simplify my brew day
)Cheshire Cat
Landlord.
Thanks Guys
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The folks at Brulosophy have tested the difference the length of the boil and the mash makes and their results have shown that there is not a statistical difference. They tested mash as short as 20 min and as long as overnight and boil as short as half-hour and as long as 3 hour (in each case compared to what they consider to be standard one-hour). This doesn't mean that you'll get the same results with your ingredients, but it suggests to me that I might be able to shorten my brew day -- I'd just need to try it. In case you are curious, one of the things that they find does make a statistical difference in their brews is the water chemistry.
Before ordering my next batch of ingredients, i have been seriously researching temperature control. As i thought that would be my next major step in beer production.
But before i pulled the trigger, i ran a report on my weather station that sits in my ground floor basement office. I'm fortunate to have a lovely old farmhouse built on a slope and under the living room is a basement that is underground to the back and right, half underground to the left, but fully open to the views down the valley on the front. So i have always been pretty fortunate that the room temperature stays pretty stable all year round due to the insulating properties of being partially buried!
Ran the report for internal V external temperature for the past week - 2.8C total variation over the past week inside! As my FV sits on an polystyrene square and stay wrapped in an old sleeping bag - i bet i am getting less than 1C variation in wort temperature over any 24 hour period!
Dont think I'll bother spending money on temp control for now!
But before i pulled the trigger, i ran a report on my weather station that sits in my ground floor basement office. I'm fortunate to have a lovely old farmhouse built on a slope and under the living room is a basement that is underground to the back and right, half underground to the left, but fully open to the views down the valley on the front. So i have always been pretty fortunate that the room temperature stays pretty stable all year round due to the insulating properties of being partially buried!
Ran the report for internal V external temperature for the past week - 2.8C total variation over the past week inside! As my FV sits on an polystyrene square and stay wrapped in an old sleeping bag - i bet i am getting less than 1C variation in wort temperature over any 24 hour period!
Dont think I'll bother spending money on temp control for now!
Attachments
Just realised its been a MONTH since i brewed any beer. Too busy brewing wine and cider and working.
Jeez, thats an eternity and my stocks are starting to get low. So low i have resorted to buying beer.
Ordered enough stock for 3 full sized brews. Planning a SMASH using mandarina bavaria, a house bitter using progress / first gold and finally an IPA with amarillo / citra.
Appropriate yeast for each also purchased!
Going to attempt to do all 3 brews in one day using just the one kettle! Plan is to get one lot of water in the kettle and get it to mash temp and bung in the first lot of grain. Whilst that is mashing I will get a second batch of water up to somewhere near temp using my no chill cube with 10l boiling water and topping up to 25l with cold.
First batch will be the smash and i intend only doing a 30min boil. Once done i can put that in the FV and put the pre-preppd warm water straight in and get that up to mash temp really quickly for batch no2. That will be the IPA and again i plan on a 30min boil. 3rd batch of water will be prep'd same as before - boiling and cold water in to the no chill cube waiting for brew no2 to be finished and dumped out of the kettle. Last brew will be a full one hour boil for the house bitter.
I reckon with a bit of careful planning i can get all 3 brews done in 8-9 hours.
Madness? Possibly.
Jeez, thats an eternity and my stocks are starting to get low. So low i have resorted to buying beer.
Ordered enough stock for 3 full sized brews. Planning a SMASH using mandarina bavaria, a house bitter using progress / first gold and finally an IPA with amarillo / citra.
Appropriate yeast for each also purchased!
Going to attempt to do all 3 brews in one day using just the one kettle! Plan is to get one lot of water in the kettle and get it to mash temp and bung in the first lot of grain. Whilst that is mashing I will get a second batch of water up to somewhere near temp using my no chill cube with 10l boiling water and topping up to 25l with cold.
First batch will be the smash and i intend only doing a 30min boil. Once done i can put that in the FV and put the pre-preppd warm water straight in and get that up to mash temp really quickly for batch no2. That will be the IPA and again i plan on a 30min boil. 3rd batch of water will be prep'd same as before - boiling and cold water in to the no chill cube waiting for brew no2 to be finished and dumped out of the kettle. Last brew will be a full one hour boil for the house bitter.
I reckon with a bit of careful planning i can get all 3 brews done in 8-9 hours.
Madness? Possibly.
My plan to do 3 brews in a day went out the window, so I'm just doing one today and two tomorrow instead.
AG 24 Tangerine surprise mk2
3.5kg Minch Irish Craft Pale Ale Malt
150gm Torrified wheat
Only added the shredded wheat as thats what I had for breakfast and i left the box out and thought "why not"
19l mash at 65c for an hour followed by a 4l dunk sparge and a good bag squeeze
Leaving 20l wort for a 60 minute boil - ended up with 16l in the FV
Hops
30 g Mandarina 60 min
20 g Mandarina 0 min
Will follow up with a 1 week dry hop of 50gm Mandarina
This time I am using leaf rather than pellets, so interesting to see if it makes any difference.
Yeast, Mangrove Jacks Yeast - M36 - Liberty Bell Ale Yeast, hopefully to try and retain as much of the delicate hop flavour as possible.
IBU 40, SRM 5, OG 1.050 – shooting for 5% abv as usual
AG 24 Tangerine surprise mk2
3.5kg Minch Irish Craft Pale Ale Malt
150gm Torrified wheat
Only added the shredded wheat as thats what I had for breakfast and i left the box out and thought "why not"
19l mash at 65c for an hour followed by a 4l dunk sparge and a good bag squeeze
Leaving 20l wort for a 60 minute boil - ended up with 16l in the FV
Hops
30 g Mandarina 60 min
20 g Mandarina 0 min
Will follow up with a 1 week dry hop of 50gm Mandarina
This time I am using leaf rather than pellets, so interesting to see if it makes any difference.
Yeast, Mangrove Jacks Yeast - M36 - Liberty Bell Ale Yeast, hopefully to try and retain as much of the delicate hop flavour as possible.
IBU 40, SRM 5, OG 1.050 – shooting for 5% abv as usual
Well that was catastrophic efficiency!
Normally I get 15/16l in to the fermenting bin, but I miss timed and ended up with 13l due to a slightly longer boil. Never mind, I'll top up to hit my target of with some water.
Took a gravity reading to check my dilution rate, 1.044
That's properly crap. So not only is it 6 points lower than anticipated, but has 3 liters more boil off too.
Could be the malt, as it's not the normal Minch hook malt, but their craft brew version. Same price, but different SKU code on the item.
Glad I've only bought 10kg
Normally I get 15/16l in to the fermenting bin, but I miss timed and ended up with 13l due to a slightly longer boil. Never mind, I'll top up to hit my target of with some water.
Took a gravity reading to check my dilution rate, 1.044
That's properly crap. So not only is it 6 points lower than anticipated, but has 3 liters more boil off too.
Could be the malt, as it's not the normal Minch hook malt, but their craft brew version. Same price, but different SKU code on the item.
Glad I've only bought 10kg
Found out why my OG was so low...
Didnt reset the scales when putting my measuring jug on it for weighing out the grain. Basically meant I brewed with 3.1kg of Minch malt, which when put in brewersfriend gives me an OG of 1.045 at 70% efficiency. So bang on the money again with my process to get a half decent BIAB efficiency - but stupid me for missing a simple button press on the scales.
So anyway, on to the next brew!
AG 25 House bitter revisited
3.5kg Minch Irish Craft Pale Ale Malt
25gm Caraffa II
200gm Crystal 145ebc
20l mash at 65c for an hour followed by a 3l dunk sparge and a good bag squeeze
Leaving 20l wort for a 60 minute boil - ended up with 16l in the FV
Hops
10 g Progress 60 min
10 g First Gold 60 min
20 g Progress 0 min
20 g First Gold 0 min
Yeast, Danstar London ESB Yeast
IBU 25, SRM 12, OG 1.055 – will update tomorrow on how it all looks!
Didnt reset the scales when putting my measuring jug on it for weighing out the grain. Basically meant I brewed with 3.1kg of Minch malt, which when put in brewersfriend gives me an OG of 1.045 at 70% efficiency. So bang on the money again with my process to get a half decent BIAB efficiency - but stupid me for missing a simple button press on the scales.
So anyway, on to the next brew!
AG 25 House bitter revisited
3.5kg Minch Irish Craft Pale Ale Malt
25gm Caraffa II
200gm Crystal 145ebc
20l mash at 65c for an hour followed by a 3l dunk sparge and a good bag squeeze
Leaving 20l wort for a 60 minute boil - ended up with 16l in the FV
Hops
10 g Progress 60 min
10 g First Gold 60 min
20 g Progress 0 min
20 g First Gold 0 min
Yeast, Danstar London ESB Yeast
IBU 25, SRM 12, OG 1.055 – will update tomorrow on how it all looks!
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Ag25 is bang on target with the OG. So definitely me being a plonker with the scales.
Anyway onwards and upwards, brew 3 in a week incoming
Anyway onwards and upwards, brew 3 in a week incoming
AG 26 proper job IPA
3kg Minch Irish Craft Pale Ale Malt
20l mash at 65c for an hour - But no sparge - anda good bag squeeze
Leaving 18l wort for a 60 minute boil - ended up with 14l in the FV
Hops
I'm not wasting decent hops for bittering and I read that progress is a very neutral bittering hop.
20 g Progress 60 min
40 g citra whirlpool
40 g Amarillo whirlpool
Put the WP hops in at 80c and left them there for approx 60mins.
The other 60gm of each will be dry hopped next week! Hop bomb!!!
Yeast, US05 of course
IBU 45, SRM 5 OG 1.055 – will update tomorrow on how it all looks
3kg Minch Irish Craft Pale Ale Malt
20l mash at 65c for an hour - But no sparge - anda good bag squeeze
Leaving 18l wort for a 60 minute boil - ended up with 14l in the FV
Hops
I'm not wasting decent hops for bittering and I read that progress is a very neutral bittering hop.
20 g Progress 60 min
40 g citra whirlpool
40 g Amarillo whirlpool
Put the WP hops in at 80c and left them there for approx 60mins.
The other 60gm of each will be dry hopped next week! Hop bomb!!!
Yeast, US05 of course
IBU 45, SRM 5 OG 1.055 – will update tomorrow on how it all looks
Looks good - I take it this is just something you've decided to call Proper Job, or at least your take on it rather than a genuine clone?
Matt, yes it's just what I decided to call it.
Slightly under my expected OG at 1.050, but only by a few points. I can live with that.
In other news the mandarina Bavaria brew is already down to 1.011 so the remaining 50g of mb has been added for a dry hop. Interestingly it stinks bloody awful, but I seem to be remember last time i used MJ liberty bell yeast it was stinky stuff. So I'm not writing it off just yet.
Slightly under my expected OG at 1.050, but only by a few points. I can live with that.
In other news the mandarina Bavaria brew is already down to 1.011 so the remaining 50g of mb has been added for a dry hop. Interestingly it stinks bloody awful, but I seem to be remember last time i used MJ liberty bell yeast it was stinky stuff. So I'm not writing it off just yet.
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Hi Nick, I had a stinky Belgium blonde not long back I used mj-m21 yeast, when I open it to do a gravity reading jeez the smell of sulphur it was bloody awful I was going to bin it, glad I didn't when it carbed up and rested it was great
Yeah, this is a stinky sulphur sour vinegar sort of minging smell. Pretty unique to be honest.
If i smelt that about 6 months ago in to my AG journey, it would be down the drain! But never say never is what i learnt and time heals all.....
If i smelt that about 6 months ago in to my AG journey, it would be down the drain! But never say never is what i learnt and time heals all.....
It's one of them, it just goes well mine did 
you can smell it sometimes in normal lager
you can smell it sometimes in normal lager
Completely forgot about the dry hop for my proper job IPA!!!
So decided to just do a hop tea instead. 20gm of each in to a litre boiled water thats cooled to 70C and will leave it to stew for a few hours and squeeze out the juice in to the fv.
Setting myself up for a fail here - but i go on holiday friday afternoon for a week, so ideally i want to bottle all 3 brews on friday morning. Looking at 90 bottles..........
So decided to just do a hop tea instead. 20gm of each in to a litre boiled water thats cooled to 70C and will leave it to stew for a few hours and squeeze out the juice in to the fv.
Setting myself up for a fail here - but i go on holiday friday afternoon for a week, so ideally i want to bottle all 3 brews on friday morning. Looking at 90 bottles..........
