Newbie with a LME kit not starting to ferment. Any ideas??

[LiamPope]

Hi. Just signed up (said hello in the intro thread) and have an issue with a simple LME ginger beer kit (mildly expired) not starting to ferment. I thought these were idiot-proof!

A little background that might be relevant for troubleshooting...

So, couple of years ago (can't remember exactly when) there was a closing down sale at a local homebrew shop. I went along and participated in what had all the madness and chaos of a looting (except people kindly stopped to pay when leaving with their arms full) and came away with a Grainfather G40, some kegs and CO2 paraphernalia, some boxed all-grain kits and some LME kits. Then was too busy with babies and stuff for a while, but couple weeks ago got round to some brewing.

First did an all-grain American pale ale kit to try out the Grainfather. The yeast sachet expiry date on that was 11.24, so I thought it'd be probably fine. That indeed seems to have gone great - all targets pretty spot on per the recipe and now ready for kegging (which will be another new journey for me) - very happy with that assuming I don't still **** it up.

Now the problem batch...

Week later (so a week ago now) I mixed up a simple ginger beer LME kit from a pouch. Pouch had a BB date 07.24, so slightly expired, but everything I've read said that shouldn't be a problem. Chucked in the extra DME required, shook up and sprinkled on the yeast from the sachet under the pouch. It asked me to stir it so I did (although I usually don't).

5 days later - nada. Can't see a single bubble coming out, and the water levels in the two little chambers of the airlock is dead level (usually I always see the level higher in the 'outer' chamber as the fermentation creates some internal pressure in the plastic vessel that pushes the water round a little - sure you know what I mean). So I figured maybe that yeast was dead, so I sprinkled in two sachets of yeast from one of the other grain kits with an expiry date 03.25, so that has to get it going, right? Few days later (now 8 days since mixing it up) and still nothing???

That has me flummoxed! Never had an issue like this before and wondering what I can do. Get a brand new yeast and chuck that in - third time lucky? (but how can the not-even-expired second yeast be bad?). Can the extract have gone unfermentable? Not that I know of. If I put more in should I try rehydrating or making a starter (never done that before - always just sprinkle the dry yeast and had no issues). Or can I try something to get what is in there going - nutrient or just give it a good shake?

The room is steady at around 21 C. Any thoughts much appreciated!

 

[Rwilts]

Have you taken a reading ? lack of visible activity doesn't mean its not fermented!

 

[LiamPope]

OH MY GOD!! FALSE ALARM! IDIOT ALERT!! :) :)

I think I've figured it out!

So I thought I'd try a good old shake. When I did I got stuff bubbling out the airlock, but not normal bubbling - more of a hissing, like it's under high pressure! So I took off the little red cap on the top of the airlock and it was like popping a pressure relief valve!

Pssshhhhhhhh!! and violent bubbling and foaming out the airlock for a while as if the beer was boiling. :)

So these particular airlocks I have I've always noticed the red cap seems pretty tight. It has me pondering for 20 seconds or so as surely it shouldn't be tight as it must not seal, then I proceed and have no issues. This particular time, yes I did notice it seemed even tighter, so I pondered a little longer and proceeded.

The airlock was literally sealed! I saw no bubbles and the water levels were even as nothing had any place to go! I think it has been fermenting all this time just building pressure!

Doh, doh, and doh!

Only way to be sure now is to take a gravity reading. I didn't do it before as I was so convinced nothing at all could be happening! I'll wait a day or two for it to settle down and take a sample and see.

I've left the cap off and just perched a bottle cap on top to stop spiders climbing in, or whatever that cap is for. Airlock is behaving normally - bubbling but pretty slow. It is day 8 so I guess it's almost done (10 days per the pouch instructions) so that fits.

I've never read this particular noob error before, so hope this maybe helps someone! Time to get better made airlocks!

Cheers

 

[Deadhead]

Well there you go! At least your lid didn't pop off!
Always check the gravity - buckets can leak, you (me) can forget to clip the lid down properly, some yeasts work quicker than you think, etc!

 

[LiamPope]

So I just took a sample, and although according to the pouch it should be done (it's 10 days now), it's only down to around 1.012. Should go down to 1.005 according to the pouch. I'll just give it more time and see. Although now I'm wondering if I maybe started a yeast war by pitching in the second sachets, and maybe the survivor's haven't got what it takes? Not sure if that's even possible. Or maybe it just got off to a bad start - too much pressure? :)

 

[LiamPope]

Hmmmm, so maybe I do have a problem? Three days later from that sample above and it's still sitting at 1.012.

Any ideas what I can do to get it going properly?

 

[tondy79]

I would taste it and see how it is. If it tastes a lot sweeter than expected you might want to do something about it. If not I'd go with it.

If you were really fermenting under pressure when your airlock was blocked then you may have partially carbonated it already, which would throw your gravity reading out anyway.

If you're planning to move it to glass bottles though you may be in a difficult position if it's partially carbonated already, as you'll have a lot of unknown factors to deal with to decide how much priming sugar to add (E.g. how carbonated is it already, is it really finished, etc)

 

[LiamPope]

Ah thanks for that! It is indeed a bit fizzy already which was a bit surprising! If I was to leave a sample out for a good while so it goes flat, would the hydrometer read correctly?

As for how does it taste, erm well I haven’t done this kit before. It’s a ginger beer and came with a sweetener sachet and said if you want it dry don’t put it in, if you want it sweet do put it in. I didn’t know so put in about half. I’d say it tastes kinda pleasantly sweet to my taste but I guess that doesn’t tell us anything. It is very hazy but again no prior experience with this. I sampled out of the tap at the bottom of the plastic fermenter as that’s my only means, so possibly a bit of gunk was drawn in.

Hmmmm interesting about the potential bottling problems I might have. I intended to begin my kegging journey with the pale ale I mentioned above and bottle this as a friend will have some. Maybe ought to keg this too then to bypass that issue? Then I’d sadly have to justify bringing forward my idea to get an iTap at some point for the future kegerator in order to bottle for my friend.

 

[tondy79]

I'd say it's worth taking a sample out and leaving it out, also agitating it to encourage any co2 to come out of solution. It can't hurt at least, and if it gets you closer to target you might have a bit more confidence that it's finished.

Plastic bottles are another option I guess, for slightly less danger. If the bottles become misshapen, then you'll know you're overcarbed at least.

Others may have better advice here!

 

[LiamPope]

Hmmm so I left a sample out overnight. It’s pretty flat, but stubbornly still reading 1.012. I’m sure my hydrometer is good - it does read 1.000 with water. So I guess I trust it and it is what it is - finished well off target which is a bit odd for an ‘idiot proof’ liquid extract kit.

So the question is, is there anything I could try that would get a bit more fermentation done if indeed there is any more to be done, but won’t ruin it? Yet more yeast? Some kind of nutrient? I really good shake?

Or alternatively just leave it and bottle/keg it. Tastes OK, it’s got alcohol, so maybe just be happy it turned out this good given the ‘expired’ ingredients and the rocky start? :)

 

[Its 6pm somewhere]

I'd say it's time to package and move on, you might not have hit your targets but you got beer. It's happened all of us and at the end of the day as long as the end product is good the numbers are secondary, you could hit all your numbers and end up with cat piss so take it as a win and enjoy

 

[LiamPope]

You're probably right! And rather than bottling those extra litres to fit in my 19 l kegs, what with the unknown carbonation status risks pointed out above, might just have to play safe and get me one (or two) of them 23 L kegs I've been thinking about. Safety first! :) :)