New Wort Chiller - have I poisoned my brew ?

[Spapro]

Hi,

Looking for some advice/reasurance from you kind chaps.

Made myself a wort chiller with 10mm copper tube. Gave it a fairly good clean before using with a sponge/scourer and failry liquid soapy solution but it did still have some green tinges/marks on it before use.

Did a brew - BIAB in a Peco boiler, added the chiller 15mins before end of boil, chilled and everything worked well.

Now the crunch - after chilling and removing the wort chiller it was bright and spotlessly clean.

So, what have I added to my brew - which has now fermented out and is ready for bottling/mini-kegging thi weekend.

The sample tastes and looks fine - bit worried I have added something to the brew though that may do myself or others some harm ?

Should I keep the brew and bottle or write it off as may be 'poisoned' ?

 

[Covrich]

Well like me you added it to the boil 15 mins so I would "hope" whatever you added was boiled and fell out

 

[Spapro]

Well like me you added it to the boil 15 mins so I would "hope" whatever you added was boiled and fell out

Thanks Covrich,

Having done a bit more googling the green/blue stuff will have been 'verdigris', something to do with oxidation of the surface of copper and is poisonous apparently.

I guess the question now is, will this have dropped out of the wort in the boiler or during fermentation, or will my brew be silently poisoned ?

Any chemists out there ?

 

[johnbarleycorn]

Wort boilers of old were made of copper......
Most distillers still use copper for their processes.
I think the only problem would be if any verdigris dissolved into the wort.....

 

[chuffer]

well if you've been poisoned then I guess I have too!

It's amazing/worrying how shiny the wort chiller and mash tun manifold is after beer has come into contact with it.

I just follow the advice I've read which is to attempt to de-tarnish copper elements on brew day, before you start brewing, using cloth dipped in a solution of white distilled vinegar and table salt, I then dunk in cold water to rinse off.....but you never get it spotlessly clean and it always looks shiny and new after the brew unfortunately

 

[Spapro]

Wort boilers of old were made of copper......
Most distillers still use copper for their processes.
I think the only problem would be if any verdigris dissolved into the wort.....

I think it probably has thats the issue, I've put the wort chiller in the wort with grubby blue/green marks on it for its first use, when removed the marks were all gone, so whatever was on it (verdigris) has been transferred/dissolved whatever into the wort during chilling.

The wort chiller is proper shiny now and have since used on a 2nd brew, no worries on future brews but bit concerned about the first brew which is now ready for bottling.

The brew looks and tastes fine but if its got silent but deadly verdigris poison in it may just ditch to to be safe.

 

[Spapro]

well if you've been poisoned then I guess I have too!

It's amazing/worrying how shiny the wort chiller and mash tun manifold is after beer has come into contact with it.

I just follow the advice I've read which is to attempt to de-tarnish copper elements on brew day, before you start brewing, using cloth dipped in a solution of white distilled vinegar and table salt, I then dunk in cold water to rinse off.....but you never get it spotlessly clean and it always looks shiny and new after the brew unfortunately

Thanks Chuffer, there were quite a lot of marks on this before first use though, its spotless now. Wish I had googled before using as could have soaked in Starsan to remove.

I think I may ditch this first 'virdigris contaminated' brew now before bottling to avoid any risk. Will break my heart though.

 

[chuffer]

no worries on future brews but bit concerned about the first brew which is now ready for bottling.

i'm afraid if it's anything like mine it will tarnish again over time due to exposure to oxygen and you will need to de-tarnish immediately before your next brew

 

[chuffer]

Thanks Chuffer, there were quite a lot of marks on this before first use though, its spotless now. Wish I had googled before using as could have soaked in Starsan to remove I think. May ditch this first brew now before bottling to avoid any risk. Will break my heart though.

not sure that would help? It's oxidation of metal, star san disinfects

I'd read around before ditching the brew, as I said it's something I've lived with and assumed challenges all home brewers who use copper

 

[chuffer]

check this:

http://howtobrew.com/book/appendices/appendix-b/brewing-metallurgy

so if I'm reading correctly:

Copper oxide is relatively inert and should be ok.
Occasionally de-tarnish with vinegar for maintenance when heavily oxidised.
Avoid cleaning with chlorines like bleach, this will blacken the copper and the black oxides will be toxic to the yeast (doesn't say about humans!) if it comes off and is dissolved into the wort

 

[Covrich]

I never really bothered heard of it. my wort chiller looks dull.. never thought about it.. i just rinse it off after use.. I hardly even pay it much attention tbh.. maybe I should.. I have yet to be posined that I know of :-o

 

[Leon103]

I think it will be ok. Mine is never 100% clean and I am still alive.

 

[Spapro]

Thanks Guys,

Will stick with it and bottle the brew - its been nice knowing you all, will ask the wife to let you know when the funeral is if I die from Virdigris posining in the near future !

 

[BeardySi]

i'm afraid if it's anything like mine it will tarnish again over time due to exposure to oxygen and you will need to de-tarnish immediately before your next brew

Use it more often and you won't have that problem! a good excuse to brew if ever there was one!



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[Brightonnik]

I tend to give it a good soak in oxi after use then rinse it off give it a quick spray with sanitiser and wrap it tight in cling film. Seems to reduce the green oxidisation marks.

 

[Covrich]

Thanks Guys,

Will stick with it and bottle the brew - its been nice knowing you all, will ask the wife to let you know when the funeral is if I die from Virdigris posining in the near future !

Id that does happen can I have your wort chiller (make sure you clean it please)

 

[chuffer]

I tend to give it a good soak in oxi after use then rinse it off give it a quick spray with sanitiser and wrap it tight in cling film. Seems to reduce the green oxidisation marks.

I found that mine showed a bit of green after the oxi and I put this down to it containing small amounts of chlorine?

 

[MyQul]

If the verdigis was disolved in the work I would have thought you could taste it (like licking 2p imagine) but you say your wort tastes fine. So I'm guessing you'll be OK?

 

[Spapro]

Id that does happen can I have your wort chiller (make sure you clean it please)

Nice one, reminds me about the guy in hospital being given the news he is dying but the guy in the next bed would like his slippers :lol:

 

[Spapro]

If the verdigis was disolved in the work I would have thought you could taste it (like licking 2p imagine) but you say your wort tastes fine. So I'm guessing you'll be OK?

Will check it again before bottling but pretty sure it tasted fine, will probably rack it to secondary and give it another week before bottling. Just giving it every chance for anything nasty to drop to the bottom before bottling.

Thanks guys will go with it and hope for the best.