New to Cider - Racking

[Buddybudd]

Hi all,

More questions!

I’ve got about 24 litres on the go of cider in a 25l vessel - when I rack into a secondary vessel is that amount of headspace going to be a problem? I’ve read about topping up with cold water - will that not dilute it and affect flavour etc? Or will that amount of space not need topping up?

Thanks again!

 

[freester]

You want to minimise air contact after fermentation. Currently I assume it's in a fermenting bucket (with a nice layer of CO2 above it) and you want to rack off to another bucket?

Personally I rack off to Demi John's and Carboys. Narrow necks to minimise air contact.

Other opinions may differ...

 

[vassili]

Not the cheapest but another way is to buy bag in a box, rack into one, expelling surplus air and close. Works for me.

 

[Buddybudd]

You want to minimise air contact after fermentation. Currently I assume it's in a fermenting bucket (with a nice layer of CO2 above it) and you want to rack off to another bucket?

Personally I rack off to Demi John's and Carboys. Narrow necks to minimise air contact.

Other opinions may differ...

Thanks for the reply dude - yeh precisely - I’m considering DJs and carboys in the future - what I think I’m going to do for now is put sterile marbles in it to displace the cider up to the brim - I’ve heard that works quite well.

Not the cheapest but another way is to buy bag in a box, rack into one, expelling surplus air and close. Works for me.

Thanks for the reply dude - how does that work out when bottling? Just bottle directly out of the tap into the bottle?

 

[Roddy]

Why do you need to rack and store for any length of time matey, why not just rack, batch prime and bottle in a oner ?

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[Amnesia180]

I'm a total newbie and have done a lot of reading.

As above, you don't have to rack and store - however, I liked the idea of doing that just, well, because...

Others have used 2l plastic bottles that you can squeeze to dispel the air from.

Alternatively, you can use the large collapsible water containers that people take camping.

Finally, you could make up some more juice and top up with that.

 

[Buddybudd]

Why do you need to rack and store for any length of time matey, why not just rack, batch prime and bottle in a oner ?

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Thanks for your reply - would that not increase chances of bottle bombs? And prevent you from racking again to help clearing if necessary?

I'm a total newbie and have done a lot of reading.

As above, you don't have to rack and store - however, I liked the idea of doing that just, well, because...

Others have used 2l plastic bottles that you can squeeze to dispel the air from.

Alternatively, you can use the large collapsible water containers that people take camping.

Finally, you could make up some more juice and top up with that.

Thanks - interesting idea!

 

[Roddy]

The main risk of bottle bombs is bottling before primary fermentation has finished, or by priming with too much sugar.

If it's down to an SG of 1.000 it's unlikely to go any lower (none of mine ever have).

If you're careful to measure your priming sugar properly when either priming by batch, or bottle (I always batch prime now), you'll be fine from that aspect too.

I've never racked a TC, and touch wood, haven't had any issues with bottle bombs. If anything I've had a few issues with underfizzy cider where I've let the cider clear too much sitting in the primary, before bottling.

The rhubarb and ginger brewnights thread of mine shows the colour/clarity when I bottled it on Thursday, it's now crystal clear in the bottles already [emoji4]

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[MattH1973]

Why do you need to rack and store for any length of time matey, why not just rack, batch prime and bottle in a oner ?

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good thread, as this was all a bit of a mystery to me last year. I ended up using a fermenting bucket as secondary and was very worried about oxidation so I bottled after a few days. Cider was delicious but lots of sediment - that's the main downside to skipping secondary I think.

But on the flipside I have read elsewhere that if you let it clear in secondary then there aren't enough yeasties left to carbonate the bottles. So this year my plan is to leave in some cheap demijohns for a week or so, to try to get rid of most of the sediment.

Hi all,

More questions!

I’ve got about 24 litres on the go of cider in a 25l vessel - when I rack into a secondary vessel is that amount of headspace going to be a problem? I’ve read about topping up with cold water - will that not dilute it and affect flavour etc? Or will that amount of space not need topping up?

Thanks again!

Interesting - I talked to a cider maker at a show this weekend. he advocated primary fermentation on neat juice only as the high sugar and acidity would reduce the chance of infection. So if your hydrometer reading is high enough such that you can dilute a bit then I would have thought adding a little water at the secondary stage to fill up a demijohn would work.

For my second batch this weekend I am fermenting the juice in its pure state, and will add some water at secondary stage if needed.

 

[Roddy]

Good point, I do get a mm or two sediment when I bottle from primary, which isn't a big deal so long as the bottles are not stored on their side and a little care is taken when pouring. The longer they're left to condition, the more the sediment compacts anyway so I still get a clear pour

What I've found so far is pretty much:

Little or no sediment in the bottle = not a very fizzy cider [emoji53]

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[bugs]

Be aware with BiB / PET bottle storage/maturation - I was advised to rack into BiBs last year but didn't hear any warnings about the resulting shelf life which is suggested as only 3-6 months in the Andrew Lea book (less for PET, I think) - oxygen can permeate inwards via the walls or outlet. 10 or so months later I think that the cider has suffered some oxidation and that is shame! From what I've picked up, better route would be to bulk store to mature in glass (or people use those big blue foodsafe barrels) before bottling or putting into BiB.

 

[Buddybudd]

Thanks for all the replies - I think I'm going to continue with secondary fermentation and then bottle at some stage! Perhaps next year I'll try some alternatives and compare notes!