New guy needs some vimto help

[simonkidder]

I have recently joined this forum because it seams everyone is very helpful. I started my first batch (2nd ever attempt at homebrew) of cheeky vimpto yesterday evening. The recipe I used was

1x 1ltr bottle vimpto boiled
150g sugar
4ltr of apple juice
1 tblsp Bread yeast

I first boiled the vimpto for 20 mins adding the sugar at the end. Added half the apple juice to DJ (all sterilised). Then added the vimpto/sugar mix. Topped up with juice then added the yeast. Which I soaked in alittle warm water and sugar first. Using my hydrometer the OG was 1.062. Does this seam about right??

The problem I have is I can see alittle froth/foam in the top of the DJ but there is no air
comming out of the airlock. The bung is a nice tight seal so I don't think I'm loosing any through there. Any suggestions. Should I leave it a day or so?? Should I add more yeast?? I didn't check the temperature of the wort before I added the yeast could I have killed it??

Also I made a magnum pear cider kit and I didn't take the OG. Is there any way of knowing the alcohol %. All i know is the FG is 1.012.

Any help will be greatly appreciated

 

[periolus]

The first tip I can give you is NEVER USE BREAD YEAST IN BREWING OF ANY KIND. IT'S HORRIBLE AND WILL NOT GIVE YOU A GOOD FLAVOUR.

Yeast provides a huge part of the flavour profile of a beer. Something like Youngs Cider Yeast, or Champagne Yeast is good for Turbo Ciders and juice-based brews.

I hope this helps!

 

[simonkidder]

Yeah I thought that may be a bad idea. It was all I had to hand at the time as I don't have a local home brew store. I'll get some ordered on Internet and re try if it goes belly up.

 

[Peapodmaster]

Exactly what periolus said. sounds the same way that i do mine. i just use Youngs cider yeast from my local "homebrew shop" (which is actually a "home and hardware" shop) one of the most important things after making sure equipment is sterile is making sure that the yeast is correct to what you wanna make. also it may sound stupid but. have you put water in the airlock? is there too much water? also it may take 24 hours or so to actually start. it took that long with my Ribena wine i am making. Also another thing is. did you use any yeast nutrient? that helps kickstart the yeast. i recomend getting it if you haven't already.

Cheers

Andy

 

[simonkidder]

No I didn't use a yeast nutrient. Again yeah I thought the bread yeast wasnt a good idea. I have moved the DJ to a warmer area of the house as its only been around 14 degrees which I'm sure is was too cold. So hopefully tomorrow I will be able to bring some positive news tomorrow. I can see the odd small bubble and there is alittle sediment on the bottom so something must be going on in there

I'm going to get some of the correct yeast and some nutrient ordered. Get the FV sterilised and attempt a larger batch of the vimto. I also think a heat belt or tray may be a good idea for me.

If this does come off do I need to use a stabiliser or preservative when bottling. If so How long would it last with out it.

Yeah I have put water in the airlock. I don't know how much water should be in there. All I can say is there are 4 ball like areas in the U section of the airlock and I have filled 1 on each side of the U if that makes sence

 

[simonkidder]

I appreciate the feed back as I need it! Ha ha

 

[periolus]

You will learn an absolute ton on this forum. Don't be afraid to ask questions, however trivial or "silly" they might seem. One thing I do with my airlocks is put cheap vodka in them, which might not be necessary, but it seemed good to have something that bacteria can't breed in just in case it gets sucked back into the demi-john during a pressure change.

If you are using demi-johns, sterilise the bungs and airlocks as well and use a little bit of vaseline (just a smear) to help provide a good seal. Also put a little where the lock goes into the bung.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

 

[simonkidder]

Yeah I'm sure I will. I need to :). Well I'm going to admit, I hope this isn't going to make you laugh but I have filled the airlock with, ready for it, water with the steriliser in it. Is this a bad idea?? Yeah I did sterilise all the bungs any everything but didn't use the vaseline I'll do that in a minute or so.

Do you think there is any chance that this vimto will turn out ok. Or am I doomed from the off because of the bread yeast

 

[simonkidder]

Result. I've warmed the bottle up a little and it's starting to bubble. Only one every 25 secs or so but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Peapodmaster]

it will work. you'll just definatly be able to taste the yeast in the drink! haha. it will last like a week or so before bottling. but it will keep in the demijohn for quite a bit. do you understand about sweetening and back sweetening? because if your cider/wine ferments fully then it will most likely be dry (and not very nice tasting unless you like dry ciders and wines).

If you stop the fermentation early with a campden tablet and a teaspoon of potassium sorbet (at an s.g. of about 1.020 (because it still ferments a bit longer maybe to about 1.010) then your wine should be sweet as you havent let the yeast ferment all the sugar so therefore it'll still have some sugar in it. but this will also kill the yeast and therefore you wont be able to make the cider/wine sparkling/fizzy

if you want to make it sweet but also make it sparkling/fizzy then you need to "back-sweeten" it which means you make the cider/wine sweeter by adding some sugar to it before you bottle it. but this poses another problem. the sugar will start fermenting with the yeast still in the liquid and therefore will build up too much pressure in the bottles and eventually break them. so the only other way to sweeten up the cider/wine and make it sparkling as well without making bottles explode is to use Splenda.. or sweetners. this are non-fermentable sugars so therefore will not build up CO2 and pressure within the bottles but will make the wine/cider sweet. you just need to add the usual ammount of sugar as well to the mix to make sure the bottles are primed (if you want them fizzy)

with the airlocks, sterilizer is just as good as water in the airlock. perhaps even better, just be carful that none gets inside your mixture also my airlocks have 3 bubbles on either in a u shape like yours. i fill mine up 1 bubble because i aways feel that having more than that means that when the airlock is bubbling water can get inside the mixture. i reccomend filling up your first bubble a little bit lower than the top of it. and leave the higher ones completely clear (make sure they are filled up both sides.

Hope i've helped. if not, just keep asking as periolus has said.

Cheers

Andy

 

[periolus]

Hi!

The only thing about using the steriliser in the airlock, is that if it is sucked into the DJ then it could interfere with the yeast, although there will only be a bit.

Now that I have run out of the cheap vodka (I don't normally drink it so only bought it for brewing!) I am going to use campden solution. Campden tablets can be used to treat water to remove chlorine before you brew and it has now adverse effect.

Crush half a tablet in a mug of water and then fill your airlock from that.

If you are using potassium sorbate to stop wine then it is really important that you put a crushed campden tablet in first and stir really well. Otherwise, you can end up with a nasty taste like geraniums in your wine! :sick:

If you PM me your address, I will send you some Youngs CIder Yeast. I have quite a bit and don't really use it anymore, as I have switched to White Labs.

 

[simonkidder]

well i plan to make it fizzy. i know about priming the bottles because of the instructions on my magnum pear cider kit (which i tried a glass of the other night, it was quite good(is there anyway of knowing the strength of this? i didnt check the OG but the FG is 1.012 and i put 1.3kgs of sugar in 25ltr of it)) but i dont know much about sweetening and camden tablets or potassium sorbate. i can tell you im going to order a whole bunch of randon chemicals that im not sure of there purpose but ill learn (well with help from you guys) because i plan on brewing a range of random brews in DJ. so far i have got on my shopping list. dont get paid till friday and im broke at the min :)

yeast nutrient
potassium sorbate
a selection of cider/ champagne/ wine yeast
citric acid
campden tablets

anything else you reccomend i get or dont get would be good.


i did check on it again this morning but there is still the odd bubble every 30 secs or so. is this too slow? the problem i have is i still live at home and my mother is lets say 'rations' the heating. so i moved it last night to my gf house where is it nice and warm at night and cool in the daytime. will this be a big problem? i think i may need to invest in a brew belt or what you would reccomend is best for heating lets say 4 DJ's.

 

[periolus]

To be honest, I would let anything in the DJ finish fermenting. Yeast carry out a complex job, but put a lot of effort into clearing up after themselves before they go to sleep. Interrupting this process can have a negative impact on the final outcome of the brew.

I happen to love dry cider, but I did try making some sweeter flat ones by adding a little potassium sorbate and campden tablet after fermenting had finished (kills yeast and prevents secondary fermentation - no carbonating in the bottle) and then sweetening with a little apple juice in the DJ before bottling.

Likewise, you could use ribena at the end this way for ribena wine, vimto for cheeky vimto etc. etc.

Does that make sense? You can also use Splenda, the artificial sweetener, which means you don't have to kill the yeast and can still carbonate in the bottle. Depends on how you feel about artificial sweetener. Lots of people use it though.

Yeast on the way soon!

Happy Brewing!

 

[simonkidder]

Appreciate the yeast.

Ive no problem at all about using artifical sweetener. As long as it does the job im happy.

To be honest tho i think im going to more than likely carbonate all my brews ( appart from if i try making a vimto shot of some kind. how could i do this?? just a load of sugar and high alcohol yeast??). so if i use the campden tabs or potassium sorbate i basically cant make it into a fizzy drink (is that correct). So i dont really need to buy then unless im going to make a wine. is the citric acid and tanning a good addition or is it not worth bothering with?

I dont mind dry cider. Ill see what this first batch turns out like with the bread yeast. do another one the same with some cider yeast then see how dry it is and start from there.

can i use campden tabs as a preservative?? or would this kill the yeast, so i wouldnt be able to make it fizzzy

 

[simonkidder]

well its bubbling away nicely now. just needed that bit of warmth.

 

[Peapodmaster]

Sounds good! good idea!

with the shot of vimto! thats a good idea! i'm going to try that myself i think!
Thankyou very much for the idea.

umm.. i made some tropical liquer by using high sugar tropical juice and loads of sugar.. and also used youngs highalcohol/dessert yeast it came out at About 17.5%. doesnt taste as nice as i thought. its a weird taste. i think it'd work well if you used artificial sweetener at the end (so it doesn't carbonate obviously) yeahh i think thats what it is. but if you use them before it fully ferments is should be sweet because it still has sugar in it. citric acid is good for wines which are low in citric acid.. but you can use the juice of a lemon if you dont wanna spend much money.. but i reccomend getting it.. tannin just makes the wine have a bit more of a bite. it makes it a lot nicer worth reccomending too! well good luck with the first batch. if you like it.. and its cheap i dont always think you should change it unless you want to perfect your recipe.

yeahh.. its used as a preservative and steriliser.. so i think you can only used them in like.. non-fizzy/carbonated drinks. otherwise they will kill the yeasties.. (which you need because when you add sugar they let out a little more CO2 and prime the bottle/keg you put them in)

Ideas for warmth are to wrap a towel around it.. sounds silly but it works! i put my "samples" and things i'm brewing in my boiler cuboard which is at a steady 24 degrees celcius which works very well!.

Good luck with it! tell me how it goes!

P.s. got any more good recipes/ideas? i'm really begging for loads at the moment! i'm gonna get about 10 x 5litre PET bottles and 20kg of sugar and go crazy with making things!

 

[simonkidder]

Yeah I think it would work well.

My plans are to get a good few DJ and try all sorts out (what ever juice is on offer at asda). A recipe I saw on here which looks good is ginger beer ( using fresh grated ginger boiled in water. Can't remember the recipe but you'll find it if you search for it.) I like ginger beer and it looked quite good. I may try a turbo cider with a ginger twist and see how that goes down.

Let me know what you make, or any good recipes you find.

Is there a minimum time you should leave your cider to settle after bottling (primed). It's just I can't keep my paws off the magnum pear cider I've made at home. It's only been bottled about 7 days and I'm just concerned I'm not tasting it at it's best. Does it made a huge difference??

What amount of sugar do you tink for a 5ltr batch vimto shot? Do you ever use finnings on cider? I'm thinking of making that WOW everyone seams to talk about. Have you ever made any?? Is it any good.

 

[Peapodmaster]

i want to make WOW. i went down town about an hour ago to look for grape juice and couldn't find any. and all my supermarkets are quite far away from where i live and i don't have any transport to get there! with the vimto. i'm not sure about the ammount you need. it depends on the vimto sugar %. if Moley see's this thread they he may be able to tell you. i'm pretty sure he's good at that stuff but apart from that.. you'll just need to find out i think my tropical juice was high in sugar.. so only used about 500g of sugar. depends what its like really. yeah you can use them on cider (i'm pretty sure but someone may correct me if i'm wrong) it should normally come out clear. especially if its turbo cider. with the pear cider. the first 2 weeks are about the same taste. i've left mine for about 4 weeks (it gets easier if you just put them somewhere you wont see them) and it tastes bloody handsome (i did Youngs brewbuddy apple cider kit and my sister has done the pear version but i recon its about the same) ... you could always "taste test" every week or so :whistle:

a good recipe is definatly ribena wine.. i've got a problem with it atm though which is that the yeast just stopped.. so i've pitched some more.. but atm its at 5%.. a very nice.. cider-y strenght! it will be very similar to the vimto wine your doing. i've just got myself a 5litre plastic waterbottle which i'm going to be using for wow when i find the juice i need!!

there is a few good books with recipes in (as well as this site) C.J.J. Berry - First Steps in Winemaking, i can swear by! its amazing! i've got a more updated recent "version" which was published 2 weeks ago called "booze for free" by andy hamilton. both have recipies for each season. very good indeed!

tell me how it goes :) :thumb:

 

[simonkidder]

yeah taste testing is the only way, in fact thats what im on with at the minute. :
ive gota be honest it does taste quite like apple cider just with a chemical pear nose. (i wasnt convinced with the chemical pear 'flavoring' that came with the magnum pear cider kit)

what sort of yeast do i need to use for the vimto shots? would wine yeast do?

im thinking that the vimto ive got on I may make into 2 batches when its ready. one carbonated and make into a cider and one into a wine maybe. unfortunatly i have however made the mistake of filling the demijohn to the top and its on the verge of flowing over. its currently throwing the odd bit into the airlock. hopefully ill get away with only alittle overflow.

whats the ribena wine recipe you use if you dont mind sharing. i may have a dabble.

my plan over the weekend is to get a load of additives and bits and bobs and start all sorts. im thinking buy a few big PET bottles of water, use the water to make a 5 gallon batch of ginger cider. then use the bottles for random TC and wine recipes

just noticed your from cornwall, just came back from there, my brother lives in newquay.

ill keep you updated

 

[Peapodmaster]

Yes, Sunny(wasn't so much this summer) cornwall! i'm right down the bottom though at Penzance!

umm with the tropical liquer i made i used youngs high alcohol/dessert yeast because it could yield up to about 18% (which is the highest your really gonna get without stilling (which is illegal in the UK)) experiment i suppose! try red wine yeasts maybe. i dunno. i think i'd stick with the high alcohol yeast you can get. that'll mean you'll be able to get the highest % of alcohol possible.

350ml of ribena (boil for a 20 minutes to get rid of preservatives
1kg of sugar
1tsp of yeast nutrient
high alcohol/dessert yeast
topped up to top of demijohn shoulder with cold water.

with a Starting S.g. 1.080

now thats my recipe which is quite nice at the moment but i think i syphoned it off to early.. and now i cant seem to get it to ferment more than 5% at the moment.. so i'm now making it into a fizzy ribena.. cider-y (without apples) drink.

there are better recipies on this site. but you'll just have to see what will be best for you.

my sister gave me about 4 pints of the pear and i've got to admit they arn't so nice! too sweet and not strong enough ( i think she made the 40 pints one at a weaker strength ? (this is the youngs kit though) i made my apple cider 32 pints at 7% which is just about the perfect percentage.

Good luck with it all again! haha i'll keep you updated as well. just about to pitch my yeast on my rosehip wine. i've been letting it soak for ages. i got my little brother to help me pick all the rosehips! i think i may upload photos on it in a bit.