New Fresh Ale category claimed

[Davegase]

But how could I inadvertently buy such a pint, as there is absolutely no deception or passing off, as @Sadfield has assured us?

So there's no need for your excellent idea at point of sale

 

[marshbrewer]

Fresh Ale.. The idea so confident in it's genius it has to be a secret. Shhhhh!

 

[Davegase]

Fresh Ale.. The idea so confident in it's genius it has to be a secret. Shhhhh!

I'm all in favor of clear labeling .
I believe that all cask ale dispense should be clearly marked with the date of first dispense.
When we buy stuff in a supermarket we are able to see best before dates.
I've had too many stale pints of cask ale, it's about time something was done about it.

 

[marshbrewer]

That's actually a good idea.

 

[clib]

You clearly did, though. One has to take what you write at face value.

I've no idea how you construe that sentence to be arguing for one thing tbh. I am undecided on this matter and am only discussing it to get my head round it. I can see the value of the fresh ale idea. I also like cask conditioned ale and I would like it to remain widely available, in a format that guarantees a good pint.

 

[Sadfield]

Fresh Ale.. The idea so confident in it's genius it has to be a secret. Shhhhh!

Can't be that secret if you know about it. Another one of your beloved conspiracies?

I've no idea how you construe that sentence to be arguing for one thing tbh.

Erm, grammar. The use of should as a modal verb.

 

[marshbrewer]

What is / are these conspiracies I subscribe to exactly? Feel free to read through my previous posts.

What is / are your objections to "Fresh Ale" aka unpasteurized keg, being accurately described at the point of sale so as to remove any possibility of it being confused as real ale?

 

[clib]

Erm, grammar. The use of should as a modal verb.

That's not arguing for one thing though is it? One form of English ale. I was just agreeing with Camra's assertion that fresh ale should be served from keg taps to provide a clear distinction because hand pulls are so strongly associated with cask ale. But I also said "I think", because I'm not sure. If there was a way of clearly distinguishing between cask and fresh ale hand pumps then that would be fine, I think. A different type of handle maybe.

 

[foxy]

Or do away with the keg system altogether, kegs and co2 dispensing have had their day when pubs were packed they served a purpose due to the speed of service. Now pubs are not nearly as busy time for cask, king kegs key kegs as long as the final step of fermentation is carried out in the above. The beer stays fresh and can be poured using compressed air and poured quickly.
Back in the 6 o'clock swill days, a hand pull wouldn't have been able to cope.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I'd suggest more staff and taps if you have a six o'clock swill scenario.
Plus go paywave.
Not convinced a pint glass is much slower to fill from beer engine than from tap.
A schooner would be a pita to fill from an engine at 425ml.
I hear footsteps on a long run up.

 

[Cwrw666]

I'm all in favor of clear labeling .
I believe that all cask ale dispense should be clearly marked with the date of first dispense.
When we buy stuff in a supermarket we are able to see best before dates.
I've had too many stale pints of cask ale, it's about time something was done about it.

That would be very useful for the punter but would almost guarantee the end of cask ale. Why? Because the drinkers would stop buying while the pub is left with half a cask of unsellable beer. Not good business. They'd just switch to all keg

 

[Davegase]

That would be very useful for the punter but would almost guarantee the end of cask ale. Why? Because the drinkers would stop buying while the pub is left with half a cask of unsellable beer. Not good business. They'd just switch to all keg

So we have to play Russian roulette

 

[Sadfield]

I don't think it would be that useful, different beers will mature at different rates. If it tastes good, it is good to serve, thats part of the job of the landlord, barstaff. And, beer can always be returned. Most decent pubs will provide a tasting sample on request.

For the Antipodeans, speed of service isn't the problem. Hand pulling is as quick, if not quicker than serving from a keg. It's not selling enough pints from a cask before it expires over a 2-4 day period. Glass size isn't a problem, pints or half pints are the standard measures.

I'd go as far as saying it's not really a pub issue, most around easily manage to maintain a couple if not more cask lines. Why I feel this is such a non-issue. It's a solution aimed at places where cask ale will never be viable.

 

[ARNWD]

This 'fresh ale' thing was reported on in The Daily Telegraph at the weekend.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/16/british-brewer-row-carlsberg-marstons-real-ale-pumps/

As the article is be hind a paywall, I have posted the text below.

Real ale drinkers froth at firm’s ‘fresh ale’ handpumps​

Carlsberg Marston’s Brewing Company faces backlash for serving new pasteurised ale through traditional handpulls​

As any fan of real ale knows, the perfect pint of cask-conditioned beer must be poured by a barman skilled in the art of pulling traditional handpumps.

But now a brewer associated with the more gaseous world of lagers has been accused of hijacking one of the hallowed rituals of the great British pub.

Carlsberg Marston’s Brewing Company (CMBC) has announced that it is to serve a new “fresh ale” keg beer through handpumps.

The firm, which makes top-selling ales such as Marston’s Pedigree, Hobgoblin and Wainwright, claims it helps mimic the flavour, body, and even theatre of real ale.

But the Campaign for Real Ale (Camra) has claimed the “handpump hijack” will “confuse consumers” who expect genuine cask beer rather than a pasteurised alcoholic drink to come from handpulls.

More than 7,000 of the distinctive pumps – the traditional method for dispensing live cask ale – have been lost in the past four years.

Of the 17,090 licensed premises that have closed since 2020, an estimated 6,000 served real ale. It is unpasteurised and contains live yeast that continues to ferment right up until it is served and drunk, as opposed to more modern keg beer, which is pasteurised and no longer a “living” product.

CMBC, a joint venture between British brewery Marston’s and Denmark’s Carlsberg Group, says its “fresh ale” has a shelf life of up to 14 days, compared to just three to four for real ale. The firm released figures detailing the decline of handpumps since the mass closure of pubs during the pandemic.

A cask of real ale, known as a firkin, contains 72 pints, and its relatively short shelf life is thought to have put off many publicans from continuing to stock it because of fears over wastage.

CMBC insisted “fresh ale” is part of an attempt to “reinvigorate the on-trade ale category, supplementing, not supplanting, traditional cask ale.”

It said more than a third of drinkers believe real ale is a hallmark of British pub culture, but only 24 per cent of pubs have enough throughput of stock to offer more than one cask beer. The company said its “fresh ale” is first brewed using the same method as real ale before being kegged in 30-litre barrels, equivalent to around 52 pints.

It added: “‘Fresh ale’ provides exciting new opportunities for pubs to serve ale, all while preserving the beloved handpull ritual that delivers the traditional theatre of serve that ale is famed for.”

But Camra, a consumer body with branches across the UK, said: “CMBC has announced its plans to start serving keg beer through handpumps, which beer drinkers widely understand as usually being exclusively used for cask-conditioned beer.

“Keg beer is not a ‘live’ beer, in that once it leaves the brewery it contains no viable yeast and does not undergo further conditioning, unlike cask-conditioned beers, which continue to develop flavour and carbonation in the pub cellar.”

Camra said it has been told by CMBC that its fresh ale served through handpulls will be labelled “brewery conditioned beer”, but added: “The campaign fears this will still confuse customers and erode their long-held understanding that only cask beer is served in this way.

“The campaign is also concerned that CMBC’s plan will reduce choice to consumers, and by taking up handpump space, elbows out genuine cask beers produced by smaller, independent brewers.”

Gillian Hough, a Camra director, said: “It would be even better if this company, despite claiming to be incredibly proud to be a leading brewer of cask ale, actually invested in producing new cask ales and supporting its existing beers.”

 

[Davegase]

For the Antipodeans, speed of service isn't the problem. Hand pulling is as quick, if not quicker than serving from a keg. It's not selling enough pints from a cask before it expires over a 2-4 day period.

Smaller casks would help. Maybe more expensive to produce, but I wouldn't mind paying more for a decent pint !! And there would be less wastage because of stale beer.

 

[clib]

The places in Manchester where I drink cask seem to sell it quickly enough. Fresh ale could work for places where that isn't the case.

Instead of saying "brewery conditioned" on the pumps, why can't they put "filtered keg ale". Be totally honest about it.

 

[Davegase]

The places in Manchester where I drink cask seem to sell it quickly enough. Fresh ale could work for places where that isn't the case.

Instead of saying "brewery conditioned" on the pumps, why can't they put "filtered keg ale". Be totally honest about it.

What if they don't filter it ?

 

[clib]

What if they don't filter it ?

"Keg ale" !

Or just take it off hand pulls, like Sam Smith's does...

 

[Davegase]

"Keg ale" !

Or just take it off hand pulls, like Sam Smith's does...

What about "Fresh keg ale served from a beer engine"
No confusion there

 

[clib]

What about "Fresh keg ale served from a beer engine"
No confusion there

Sorted.