New Competition rules.

[Leon103]

Do forumites plan for the forum competitions in that way? From reading the threads on competitions it seems like people submit if they have something relevant already or brew within the month if there's time.

In terms of trusting whether people are labelling correctly, that goes if we ban animal products from competitions completely. Would there be some brewers who think "I'll use finings but not label it, what they won't know won't hurt them."

We have the homebrew competition schedule which lists the beer style and judge for each month, we can add whether it's a finings free competition as well.

I see comments that suggests they do plan, more so around the hoppy styles which need to be fresh.

There are 1000s of members, there are bound to be a few in the 'I don't care, I will submit it anyway ' group. Plus those that don't know what is or isn't made from animals, we have already seen one post that suggests that.

I guess it's the judges risk, if there ever get to be a judge.

 

[jceg316]

I see comments that suggests they do plan, more so around the hoppy styles which need to be fresh.

There are 1000s of members, there are bound to be a few in the 'I don't care, I will submit it anyway ' group. Plus those that don't know what is or isn't made from animals, we have already seen one post that suggests that.

I guess it's the judges risk, if there ever get to be a judge.

I think having it written on the schedule and a reminder in the comp thread should work then if people are planning. There's also nothing stopping us amending the above rules with a list of animal products (including lactose) so forum members know what not to include.

I'm mostly vegan these days, I'd much rather no animal products, however I want to make sure everyone feels included. Maybe an admin can weigh in here?

 

[samale]

There shouldn't be a problem stating that your a vegan if it's your turn to judge. Put out a request that you can't accept beer that includes animal products.

 

[Ray1314]

Agree that we should be as inclusive as is practical, without alienating the brewers who don't have an issue with animal based finings. Perhaps next years competition calendar could have one month dedicated to vegan beers?

 

[Leon103]

Agree that we should be as inclusive as is practical, without alienating the brewers who don't have an issue with animal based finings. Perhaps next years competition calendar could have one month dedicated to vegan beers?

Perhaps they can run a separate competition? Along with a non alcoholic one.

 

[Cowman]

I don't always keep notes of whether or not I use finings in my beers and i certainly cant remember if I put gelatin in or not in a beer that's been conditioning for a month or 2 so any beers I send will be a coin flip

 

[jceg316]

Having one dedicated competition per year isn't really fair considering there are 2 people above who want to judge, probably more if we were to ask. I really don't see what's wrong with it being done as I said above?

 

[An Ankoù]

It seems a bit of a strange approach to me. Trad beer styles in the UK often contain isinglass, gelatine and other finings and lactose for sweetening. This isn't Munich! Why would a vegan want offer him or herself to judge traditionally made beers, but restrict their contents because of their own life choices? A bit of a highly processed and purified product of animal origin should be pretty much undetectable anyway. Are we going to insist that finings come from Kosher or Halaal sources so that we don't exclude potential judges who might otherwise object? (Although why a Muslim would want to be a beer judge is beyond me, but you never know).

 

[MickDundee]

It seems a bit of a strange approach to me. Trad beer styles in the UK often contain isinglass, gelatine and other finings and lactose for sweetening. This isn't Munich! Why would a vegan want offer him or herself to judge traditionally made beers, but restrict their contents because of their own life choices? A bit of a highly processed and purified product of animal origin should be pretty much undetectable anyway. Are we going to insist that finings come from Kosher or Halaal sources so that we don't exclude potential judges who might otherwise object? (Although why a Muslim would want to be a beer judge is beyond me, but you never know).

Seriously though:
1) We have more than just British beers in our categories
2) the only purpose of isinglass/gelatine in “traditional” cask beers is to clear them quicker and keep them clear to get the casks from brewery to pub quicker. It’s a money making “tradition”, not anything to do with favour or quality. In fact more and more breweries are ditching finings. Leaving it out won’t have an effect on the beer (in fact some people reckon findings can strip some of the flavour, particularly hop flavour).
3) objecting to the way animals are treated shouldn’t prevent you from being able to sample good beer.

I’m not a vegetarian btw

 

[Leon103]

Having one dedicated competition per year isn't really fair considering there are 2 people above who want to judge, probably more if we were to ask. I really don't see what's wrong with it being done as I said above?

But if they all want the same category then that rules out that style for a year. Plus they may not get the chance if they are slow off the boat.

Ps - waiting for a celiac to request a gluten free month

 

[An Ankoù]

Ps - waiting for a celiac to request a gluten free month

That would be a worthy challenge. A quick googling seems to suggest a lot of grains are gluten free, but can you make decent beer without barley? Celiacs don't really choose to be celiacs so I'd be up for that one. Thought my son was a celiac for years, it turned out he'd been misdiagnosed.

 

[CD]

Apart from being made with fish guts

I use finings because that was what I was told to do on a course I attended in 1984 run by a professional brewery, and I have no issue whatever with what they are made from as they remain in the lees or dregs at the bottom of the casks, and not in the beer that's drunk.

 

[TheOsprey]

I use finings because that was what I was told to do on a course I attended in 1984 run by a professional brewery, and I have no issue whatever with what they are made from as they remain in the lees or dregs at the bottom of the casks, and not in the beer that's drunk.

Hope you're still using floppy disks too...

 

[CD]

Of course I am in my Canon StarWriter 500 word processor. Is that a sin or something?

 

[An Ankoù]

Seriously though:
1) We have more than just British beers in our categories
2) the only purpose of isinglass/gelatine in “traditional” cask beers is to clear them quicker and keep them clear to get the casks from brewery to pub quicker. It’s a money making “tradition”, not anything to do with favour or quality. In fact more and more breweries are ditching finings. Leaving it out won’t have an effect on the beer (in fact some people reckon findings can strip some of the flavour, particularly hop flavour).
3) objecting to the way animals are treated shouldn’t prevent you from being able to sample good beer.

I’m not a vegetarian btw

Yes we do. But we also have British beers and even our amateur formulations of "overseas" beers are not constrained by local customs. FInings do serve a purpose in cask beer and also in wine. It has become part of the process for many brewers and it;s not all about making money. FInings allow a cask of beer to be drunk fresher and that is good for the hop flavour in a tradional cask ale. I don't use finings because I bottle or party keg all my beer and the "fluffy bottoms" tend to be unstable under the higher carbonation of a bottle or a keg. The way animals are treated has nothing to do with good beer. Animals on "industrial" farms are generally treated abominably. Stop buying stuff from these people. Stop buying tortured chickens from concentration camps. Stop eating McDonald's *****. Eat animals that have had a good life; and when the hooves and horns are left over to render down to fining products then that's all to the good. And when we all go non-animal and live on organic, non-GM cereal crops, where's the fertiliser going to come from to nourish these crops? There's only so much kelp in the oceans and only a few farms close enough to benefit.
Objecting to the way animals are treated is a seriously, serious issue and needs getting right.

 

[TheOsprey]

Yes we do. But we also have British beers and even our amateur formulations of "overseas" beers are not constrained by local customs. FInings do serve a purpose in cask beer and also in wine. It has become part of the process for many brewers and it;s not all about making money. FInings allow a cask of beer to be drunk fresher and that is good for the hop flavour in a tradional cask ale. I don't use finings because I bottle or party keg all my beer and the "fluffy bottoms" tend to be unstable under the higher carbonation of a bottle or a keg. The way animals are treated has nothing to do with good beer. Animals on "industrial" farms are generally treated abominably. Stop buying stuff from these people. Stop buying tortured chickens from concentration camps. Stop eating McDonald's *****. Eat animals that have had a good life; and when the hooves and horns are left over to render down to fining products then that's all to the good. And when we all go non-animal and live on organic, non-GM cereal crops, where's the fertiliser going to come from to nourish these crops? There's only so much kelp in the oceans and only a few farms close enough to benefit.
Objecting to the way animals are treated is a seriously, serious issue and needs getting right.

I feel these messages probably need moving to a different thread, as we've really gone pretty much completely off topic...

However, to add one more reply, it's not really about eating the animals who have lived well. For example, for every chicken you eat which has lived well, its male sibling has probably been gassed to death at birth or been thrown, live, into a shredder. I'm not a preachy vegan at all - in fact, a year ago I was the biggest meat eater I knew - but I feel that's quite a significant point. I'm happy to discuss veganism in a different thread. I might go and make it in the bridge.

 

[CD]

What's a meat water?

 

[TheOsprey]

What's a meat water?

Uh bovril?

Edited it...

 

[jceg316]

But if they all want the same category then that rules out that style for a year. Plus they may not get the chance if they are slow off the boat.

Ps - waiting for a celiac to request a gluten free month

Is the issue that you use finings or animal products? How difficult would it be for you not to in one of your beers?

 

[Leon103]

Is the issue that you use finings or animal products? How difficult would it be for you not to in one of your beers?

Very