New brewery. Thoughts and ideas.....

[DoctorMick]

I can't believe other costs work out at 20p a pint...and I don't mean I don't believe you're right, I'm just shocked it's that low. :shock: :thumb:

 

[Greenhorn]

Dave Porter has total costs per pint as 33p, and that includes duty. So actually, his calculations for other costs come out at only 13p per pint.

That 33p sounds peanuts, but adds up to nearly £24 for a cask. Which if you're selling to pubs for £60 is quite a lot. Take off the costs from your £60 cask and you're left with £36, or 50p a pint profit.

 

[simon12]

13p is on the low side and only allows for cheap hops. I just sold a 1 barrel brewery and calculated 14.3p per pint using 1Kg total between target and bramling cross for 4 casks and 40Kg grain with pale and crystal, I allowed £5 for electricity, water treatment, finings, cleaners and chems again for 4 casks. You could get this down slightly if you can order grain by the tonne. I think you are on to a good idea a 2.5BBL brewery in a pub is enough to test the market and if it doesn't work out its still worth having for the pub to just do 1 brew a week for themselves. Don't underestimate the number of casks you need or the space you need for them.
As for the can you do it with only 2 days a week, 2 full days yes but you need to check the gravity, mix finings or change temp on a FV a few more days so you either need to do that on the way home or get someone in the pub to do it. I suggest you do a deal with the pub to pay rent and bills in the form of X no of free casks a month just to keep it simple.
The main problem I had was the no. of pubs that are free of tie around me was tiny and all of them had calls from so many breweries all the time and niether myself or business partner were great on the sales side. Also had so few customers that would take more than 1 Cask at a time so had to drive miles to clear 8 casks a week.
If you want any help/suggestions I am happy to give you my phone no if you PM me.

 

[Greenhorn]

Cheers Simon. Great advice. And I may well take you up on that phone call. Got a massive deadline at work so I might leave it a couple of weeks until things calm down a tad.

I agree that 13p is a bit on the tight side, which is why I've allowed 20p in my calculations.

The pub itself isn't an issue. They are happy to pay usual price for the beer and benefit from any raise in general revenue. It's the brewery I've got to pay.

 

[Greenhorn]

Thankfully the pub is about 2 minutes stroll away, so a nightly check after work isn't too much of a burden.

"A quick pint? Oh, don't mind if I do."

 

[MyQul]

That ��£3.80 breaks down into:

��£2.60 for the pub including VAT.
50p for me.
20p duty.
30p to the brewery.
20p other costs.

Other costs include utilities, grain, hops, cleaning and maintenance. These figures were obtained from Dave Porter at PBC.

As far as a specific agreement with the pub and/or brewery are concerned, that is something that would have to be thrashed out as and when.

Interesting to see the breakdown of the cost of a pint. I wonder where the other �20p- £1.20 goes for a London pint though

 

[Greenhorn]

Take a stab at the costs of running a central London pub.

The rent alone would be eye watering. Then you've got higher staff wages, probably security on the door on busy nights. Bigger insurance premiums. You and all your suppliers have to pay the congestion charge. Etc etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I choke on having to pay £5.50 a pint as well. But that's the price you pay (literally) for drinking in one of the world's most expensive cities.

 

[Leon103]

Would £24 a cask cover setup and running costs?

 

[Greenhorn]

It would cover running costs and possibly up to 5p in a pint of start up repayments. Which on a 2.5bbl a week brew would be about £36.

 

[Hoddy]

And the average cask is sold to a pub, or into the SIBA chain for about £65-£70 on average. As low as £55 in some cases.


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[Leon103]

And the average cask is sold to a pub, or into the SIBA chain for about £65-£70 on average. As low as £55 in some cases.


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Or lower according to some cases. A local pub to me sells cask pints at £2.90 a pint. I guess someone is taking less of a cut

 

[Leon103]

It would cover running costs and possibly up to 5p in a pint of start up repayments. Which on a 2.5bbl a week brew would be about £36.

Would £36 a week cover the start up costs?

 

[Greenhorn]

I guess it depends how you fund it.....

loan repayments of £156 a month aren't that much but it all depends on how much you borrow, what the repayment schedule is etc.

And I'm guessing I'd be topping that up wit some of my profit as well. If I was able to keep working 3 days a week in london, then at a pinch, most ir even all of my 50p a pint could be used to pay off set up costs. and that would come to nearly £20,000 p/a. Which should sort out most of the initial costs on a brewery that size.

How long is a piece of string, really?