My start up equipment-it's a little confusing...

[Dazlerisepic]

Hi guys,

I wonder if I can pick your brains?

I am about to attempt my first batch and have aquired several kegs, one being a wilkinsons own bottom tap budget keg and one being a Rotokeg top tap. Would I be right in presuming I would be better with the Rotokeg? This being the case and the fact that the chap I aquired them from gave up with no successful brews I have started to look for his flaws but this is where the confusion starts. Looking at the 2nd picture showing what I think is a c02 top up valve and a pressure release valve and also a pressure gauge, firstly am I right in what these are? Looking at the seals they are dubious at best, can a pressure gauge be sealed like this with just a bit of PTFE tape, I know PTFE is good but I though the gauge would need to screw into a body before being sealed to plastic? All 3 seals look to me like they could fail so I was thinking as I have a spare cap (pictured) with just one hole in it can I just use a co2 valve if I am carefull of not overfilling? I could use the stainless one with new seals but I also have a brass one, I am not sure though if the brass one is a pressure release valve or co2 top up valve as you can see it has no pin, anyone know for sure? I also have the co2 cannister (pictured) how much is it tp get them filled or should I buy the tiny ones? So many questions I know but it's a minefield for a novice and I want to make it a success so a little preperation can only help what are your thoughts please?

 

[Cwrw666]

The cap with the three things looks a total mess, squidged up rubber seals - can't see that being airtight.
If it was me I'd use the cap with the single hole and just fit the pressure release valve, but don't overtighten it as it'll screw up the seal.
In the past I've had so much trouble with leaking pressure valves that I have resorted to replacing them with a bolt sealed with a fibre washer. But you have to be damn sure that 1. your brew has definitely finished fermenting and 2. you don't overprime. Get those wrong and you'll have a split barrel! Maybe I never managed that because as soon as the pressure was up I was drinking it.

 

[Dazlerisepic]

Thanks for your reply :)
I thought the cap with 3 was a disaster too, I will use the cap with only 1 hole and just the pressure valve, as for sealing washers I was thinking maybe screwfix sell a pack of fibre washers or is their a place where you can buy a few rubber ones at little cost on the net?

 

[Dazlerisepic]

I have had some pale ale on the go for 5 days and it's ready for the kegg, panic time lol...
I drilled a bigger hole in the cap with only one hole and fitted the c02 valve easy enough, I thought it needed a washer on the underside too though which it didnt have when I dismantled it so I fitted a washer on both sides where it touches the green plastic top, is this ok? please see pic 1. How the heck are you supposed to get the o ring onto the lid though, I tried for an hour, I tried it with and without vaseline, wet and dry, hot and cold but it just would not stay in? What worried me the most was when I screwed it on the kegg the lid kept popping off. Does this mean I need to buy a brand new lid? I gave up on the rotokeg for now and used a wilko one so I had to swap the valve over so again have I done the right thing in putting a washer either side? Well it's in the kegg and time will tell...

 

[Dutto]

Hmmm! Conundrum!

Sorry that no-one has answered so far but all of it is "solvable" it's just that without touching the stuff I'm at a bit of a loss!

Let's start with the CO2:

1. I haven't got a clue where the CO2 cylinder came from or how you would get it refilled.
2. I don't see a Pressure Regulator anywhere and you will definitely need one.

Here's my own set up:

1. Photograph One is of my CO2 set up:
   • The Sodastream CO2 bottle has a Pressure Regulator fitted to it.
   • The tubing from the PR goes to a manifold from where it can be redirected as required.
2. Photograph Two is of a King Keg Top Tap:
   • The Cap has what is called an S30 fitting in the centre. It has a Pressure Relief Valve so that any excess pressure will be relieved from the PB when carbonating with Brewing Sugar.
   • The cap also has a Schrader Valve fitted. I pressurise the keg with CO2 when the natural carbonation is finished.
   • The coiled tubing and fitting on the top allows me to pressure up the keg with CO2 using the PR.

NOT shown in your photographs is the CO2 capsule holder that allows you to use 8g CO2 capsules to top-up the CO2 in the barrel when the natural carbonation is finished. It looks like the red thing in this:

https://www.brewbitz.com/p/167-replacement-brass-valve-bulb-holder-for-8gram-co2-cartridge.html

I have modified this one so that I can still use it on an S30 fitting to inject CO2 from the Sodastream system if required:

I hope this has made things a bit clearer.

If it's made it more confusing I apologise!

 

[Leon103]

Sorry I can't help, but after 5 days are you sure it's ready for kegging?

 

[Cwrw666]

By the way - I've never used CO2 with a pressure barrel. Assuming you've no gas leaks after you've primed your barrel and left it in the warm for a week or two, you'll have plenty of pressure until you've drained about half of the barrel. When the pressure runs out you can either top up with a CO2 bulb or do what I do - remove the cap and add more priming sugar, leave it a few days and you'll have pressure til the end of the barrel.

I've always considered CO2 bulbs a bit of a waste of money, especially if it turns out you've got a leak in your cap...

 

[Dazlerisepic]

Sorry I can't help, but after 5 days are you sure it's ready for kegging?

yes I checked it with a hydrometer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dazlerisepic]

Hmmm! Conundrum!

Sorry that no-one has answered so far but all of it is "solvable" it's just that without touching the stuff I'm at a bit of a loss!

Let's start with the CO2:

1. I haven't got a clue where the CO2 cylinder came from or how you would get it refilled.
2. I don't see a Pressure Regulator anywhere and you will definitely need one.

Here's my own set up:

1. Photograph One is of my CO2 set up:
   • The Sodastream CO2 bottle has a Pressure Regulator fitted to it.
   • The tubing from the PR goes to a manifold from where it can be redirected as required.
2. Photograph Two is of a King Keg Top Tap:
   • The Cap has what is called an S30 fitting in the centre. It has a Pressure Relief Valve so that any excess pressure will be relieved from the PB when carbonating with Brewing Sugar.
   • The cap also has a Schrader Valve fitted. I pressurise the keg with CO2 when the natural carbonation is finished.
   • The coiled tubing and fitting on the top allows me to pressure up the keg with CO2 using the PR.

View attachment 15054

View attachment 15055

NOT shown in your photographs is the CO2 capsule holder that allows you to use 8g CO2 capsules to top-up the CO2 in the barrel when the natural carbonation is finished. It looks like the red thing in this:

https://www.brewbitz.com/p/167-replacement-brass-valve-bulb-holder-for-8gram-co2-cartridge.html

I have modified this one so that I can still use it on an S30 fitting to inject CO2 from the Sodastream system if required:

View attachment 15056

View attachment 15057

I hope this has made things a bit clearer.

If it's made it more confusing I apologise!

thanks for your help :) your set up looks very professional


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dutto]

thanks for your help :) your set up looks very professional

........

Oh how I wish!!

I've just spent nearly two hours making adaptors fit tubes and trying to simplify the system!

I think most "professionals" would go bald tearing their hair out if they ever saw the Heath Robinson system I normally finish up with. As an example I give you my first pass at an Immersion Cooler.

It actually worked but I was so ashamed of it that I built the improved version below!

 

[Leon103]

yes I checked it with a hydrometer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would still leave it at least another 5 days

 

[Oneiroi]

BTW, the hambleton bard co2 bottles can be refilled in lots of places e.g https://www.brewuk.co.uk/s30-gas-cylinder-refill.html

 

[Dazlerisepic]

Oh how I wish!!

I've just spent nearly two hours making adaptors fit tubes and trying to simplify the system!

I think most "professionals" would go bald tearing their hair out if they ever saw the Heath Robinson system I normally finish up with. As an example I give you my first pass at an Immersion Cooler.

It actually worked but I was so ashamed of it that I built the improved version below!

View attachment 15075

View attachment 15076

I would guess that you are a plumber, just from the end feed fittings and I haven’t heard the term heath robinson in a long long time, it made me laugh when I read it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dutto]

I would guess that you are a plumber, ......

I worked part-time for a Plumber for about six months, but quit after he accused me of screwing his wife!

I learned a lot from the man and he is still the only person I have ever met who could produce a perfect "wiped joint" using just a *** packet and a dab of flux!

BTW, I quit because his accusation was false. I didn't even realise his wife was available!

 

[Dazlerisepic]

By the way - I've never used CO2 with a pressure barrel. Assuming you've no gas leaks after you've primed your barrel and left it in the warm for a week or two, you'll have plenty of pressure until you've drained about half of the barrel. When the pressure runs out you can either top up with a CO2 bulb or do what I do - remove the cap and add more priming sugar, leave it a few days and you'll have pressure til the end of the barrel.

I've always considered CO2 bulbs a bit of a waste of money, especially if it turns out you've got a leak in your cap...

This sounds better than gas

 

[Dazlerisepic]

I worked part-time for a Plumber for about six months, but quit after he accused me of screwing his wife!

I learned a lot from the man and he is still the only person I have ever met who could produce a perfect "wiped joint" using just a *** packet and a dab of flux!

BTW, I quit because his accusation was false. I didn't even realise his wife was available!

wiping a lead joint is probaly one of the hardest thing ever to do in life, lead beating one piece around a chimney into 3 profiles being the second

 

[Dutto]

This sounds better than gas

The only problem with this method is that to prime a PB with enough sugar to produce enough pressure to drive all of the gas out of the PB means that you have "gassy" beer; which is something I hate!

This is especially a problem with a King Keg Top Tap which towards the end of the brew needs enough pressure to force the brew +/-400mm from the bottom of the barrel up to the tap; so you can't just open the cap!

Since getting my CO2 system set up I only carbonate with about 0.5g per litre and then use 4psi of CO2 pressure to keep everything flowing.

It works!

 

[Hoppyland]

Let's start with the CO2:

1. I haven't got a clue where the CO2 cylinder came from or how you would get it refilled.
2. I don't see a Pressure Regulator anywhere and you will definitely need one.

Hi Dazlerisepic. Just seen this thread. i used to use Hambledon Bard CO2 years ago. You don't in fact need a pressure regulator for them. The system is certainly a bit "basic" mind you, but it does work. You pressurise the barrel by screwing the gas cylinder down onto the inlet valve. After a few turns, you'll feel a bit of resistance. This is the spring-loaded valve on the cylinder engaging with the bottom of the inlet valve. If you continue screwing the cylinder down onto the inlet, you'll hear a "squeak" as the pressure distorts the rubber sleeve on the narrow post on the underside of the valve (this sleeve is acting as a non-return valve) and CO2 enters the cylinder. You have to learn how much to inject by trial and error, so go easy at first and just inject a small amount. As you draw off the beer, you can maintain the pressure by injecting a little more gas every couple of pints or so. Yes, its pretty primitive, but I found that it did work, and was a lot easier than trying to re-prime the barrel to maintain pressure.
It is an expensive way of buying CO2 but perfectly serviceable whilst you are trying out the hobby. Bottling is also a very good option, but quite a bit more work. If you get into brewing, and like beer on tap, then I'm sure that you'll progress to "Corny" kegs and a large CO2 cylinder with pressure regulator.
Oh, and personally I wouldn't leave the CO2 cylinder permanently screwed into the inlet valve. I found that occasionally you got a bad seal when the cylinder was unscrewed (you could hear a slight hiss out of the cylinder valve) I found that this could usually be overcome by tapping the valve with a hammer (with, say, a piece of wood on the valve tip to avoid damage). This resulted in a brief burst of gas after which the valve usually re-seated itself properly). I found this out after a few cylinders were (at first, inexplicably) empty when I can to top up the pressure.
hope this helps!

 

[Dazlerisepic]

Hi Dazlerisepic. Just seen this thread. i used to use Hambledon Bard CO2 years ago. You don't in fact need a pressure regulator for them. The system is certainly a bit "basic" mind you, but it does work. You pressurise the barrel by screwing the gas cylinder down onto the inlet valve. After a few turns, you'll feel a bit of resistance. This is the spring-loaded valve on the cylinder engaging with the bottom of the inlet valve. If you continue screwing the cylinder down onto the inlet, you'll hear a "squeak" as the pressure distorts the rubber sleeve on the narrow post on the underside of the valve (this sleeve is acting as a non-return valve) and CO2 enters the cylinder. You have to learn how much to inject by trial and error, so go easy at first and just inject a small amount. As you draw off the beer, you can maintain the pressure by injecting a little more gas every couple of pints or so. Yes, its pretty primitive, but I found that it did work, and was a lot easier than trying to re-prime the barrel to maintain pressure.
It is an expensive way of buying CO2 but perfectly serviceable whilst you are trying out the hobby. Bottling is also a very good option, but quite a bit more work. If you get into brewing, and like beer on tap, then I'm sure that you'll progress to "Corny" kegs and a large CO2 cylinder with pressure regulator.
Oh, and personally I wouldn't leave the CO2 cylinder permanently screwed into the inlet valve. I found that occasionally you got a bad seal when the cylinder was unscrewed (you could hear a slight hiss out of the cylinder valve) I found that this could usually be overcome by tapping the valve with a hammer (with, say, a piece of wood on the valve tip to avoid damage). This resulted in a brief burst of gas after which the valve usually re-seated itself properly). I found this out after a few cylinders were (at first, inexplicably) empty when I can to top up the pressure.
hope this helps!

Yes it does thanks, I was worried about the seals and as the keg was not new I wanted to make sure it was clean so I removed the rubber seal from the underside of the cap. How the heck do you put them back on, I just can't seem to get it back on?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dutto]

.......... so I removed the rubber seal from the underside of the cap. How the heck do you put them back on, I just can't seem to get it back on?
.........

I have the same trouble with a Durex!

However, for those tiny little seals I use a tiny bit of Vaseline on the stem.

TBH you should get a new one. The underside is the one that stops the CO2 from escaping "backwards" whereas the one on the topside is the Pressure Relief Device that allows any overpressure to escape.

If either of them gets perished (usually after about three years) the CO2 starts to escape. You may find that the underside one will be too long. It is held in place by a tiny lip on the end and if it overhangs this lip it can migrate downwards so far that the inlet hole is revealed and the CO2 can escape. I trim mine with a very sharp Stanley knife when it's in place.