my first set up in progress, am I on the right path?

[Stone Cold]

Hello this is my first post on THBF.co.uk my names ollie and im building a single tier 3 pot, 3 burner set up out of kegs. although there are thousands of yanks on youtube showing of their set ups and explaining them I just have a hard time listening and taking in what they are saying and most are over complicated with computers and all-sorts coming off them. all im trying to achieve at this point is to be able to do a mash by next week because i have been offered a place in a beer festival late september, fancy parts will be installed later. I have 2 kegs at the moment, can i make do with 2 for now? they have taps on and lids cut off. I have bought a drill pump to move liquids around although i have not seen anyone using drill pumps for this purpose will it stand up to the job? I have a false bottom in 1 keg which is intended to be the mash tun. i thought i would get 3x multi jet burners do i need one under mash tun? im guessing il need a wort chiller for sure how long a length of copper pipe should i have for cooling 9 gallon batches?

1. can i achieve 9 gallon batches with 2 kegs for now or should i go straight to 3?
2. will a drill pump do the job of pumping?
3. how many burners do i need?
4. how much copper pipe do i need for wort chiller?

I probably have a million more question i want to ask but little steps. i live in POWYS WALES is there anybody out there who is willing to invite me to watch a brew day with them if they have a set up like the one i am aiming for? I have the opportunity to have my beer in a few pubs already and a offer for a place in a beer festival so i am dead keen to get moving with this project, until now i have only made 5 gallon batches on normal kitchen equipment which i bottle up, now I need a bigger system to fill casks with are on lend from a micro brew in hay-on-wye which is not up and running yet. all advice is welcome and needed.
thanks.

 

[Aleman]

Ollie,

Take a look at my set up Effin Brewery. Doing a nine in a 50L keg is possibly . . . barely . . . the risks associated with boil overs is quite high (Watch the videos and see how close I get). As far as Burners go get a single High Powered one. something like this Fokker Burner which you can reverse the legs on and a Keg will sit nice and secure on top of it as the optimum height for efficient heating. Also use Propane so get a decent regulator like 50mBar 1Kg/Hour one.

I do all my heating in the kettle and then transfer the mash liquor to the mash tun (Insulated 50L keg . . . Therefore no heating required). Then refill and reheat while the mash is on, before transferring to an Insulated Hot Liquor tank (Therefore no heating required) . . . with a pump its a doddle, without it's no big deal, as I use a 3L jug and just jug it across. For this I would say that you need a minimum of 3 vessels. . . I would also suggest that you completely forget the American brewers obsession with temperature stepped mashes, which is why their mash tuns have a burner . . . insulate it well and don't worry about it. . . . While its convenient to have a heated HLT it's not essential as long as your Kettle is quick enough to heat the liquor while the mash is under way.

I'm not convinced by drill pumps I don't think the components are food grade, and some of the ones I have taken apart are downright ugly inside and use fibre washers (a good place for bacteria to hide). . . . Transferring hot water . . .possibly . . . hot wort . . . stick to jugs and or plastic buckets.

If I was in your situation I would heat the mash liquor in the kettle stood on the floor, Transfer it to the mash tun on a table, mash in an insulated keg, Heat the sparge liquor in the kettle and transfer it to another vessel on the table, fit hop strainer. Then recirculate the mash by draining into jugs returning it to the top, until it runs clear . . . then allow it to drain into the kettle . . . jug sparge liquor from the HLT into the mash tun until you have collected your wort. It's crude but it will work, and produce good beer . . . As you say the bells and whistles can come later.

 

[pjbiker]

Hi Stone Cold,

Aleman knows his stuff, I agree with what he says. I'm still in the evolution stages and only have one heating vessel, see link to my 10 gallon plant. I use 2 kettle elements on a 70L stock pot so a proper burner will make light work of it. Yes, a separate heated HLT with thermostat would be nice but I've managed OK so far pumping into unheated FV's then running by gravity into mash tun. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6617

1. can i achieve 9 gallon batches with 2 kegs for now or should i go straight to 3?
3 would be best but not all need to be heated as Aleman said, I get away with only 1 big pot and 3 30L plastic FVs.

2. will a drill pump do the job of pumping?
I bought a plastic one for £5 and it leaked everywhere. Not sure about the metal ones but I use a cheap 12v pump which is adequate but doesn't cope well with air locks. See my post. Jugs are surprisingly quick, get some some big jugs :whistle: :rofl: and do the plumbing later

3. how many burners do i need?
Not my area

4. how much copper pipe do i need for wort chiller?
Mine is homemade counterflow with 10metres of 10mm copper (length available at B&Q) and cools 10gallons to 20deg in about half an hour. Have to slow down the flow in summer like yesterday but only adds 10-15mins on. It is easiest to make a simple immersion chiller Buy a spring pipe bender for 10mm copper for about £6 from B&Q or you will kink the pipe.

You will need some kind of hop strainer in your boiler. Easy way is 15mm copper fittings with a stainless stell braided flexible tap connector attached to it in a loop (remove the rubber tube inside it of course). Alternatively you can do what I did and just use 15mm copper fittings and pipe with hack saw cuts half way through. If you let the hops sink to the bottom they form a filter bed too. If you use an immersion chiller in the boiler, be careful not to stir up the hops as the cold break clogs the hop strainer. I know, I've done it.

 

[Stone Cold]

thank you both very much good advice indeed. i started to wonder about the pump as soon as i bought it, waste of £10.45 especially now iv seen em on ebay for £1.50 ! must be a piece of crap. where do you get your grains from? any dangers in goin for the cheapest? .

so if im using 2 kegs to make 9gallons do I dump all 9 gallons into the mash tun with grain 'mash' run some off into the now empty kettle then sparge or dump say 6 gallons into the mash 'mash' them sparge with the remaining 3gallons while sending wort back into kettle keg?

what im thinking is will my keg overflow with 9 gallons of liquid and my grains im guessing about 20kg of grains without lookin at recipes.

 

[critch]

at 66.c mash your looking at 2.7-1 liqour to grist ratio at i personally use 3-1 with no ill affects

if you want a sweeter beer go for a thicker mash at a higher temp(industry standard is [email protected] ish)

 

[pjbiker]

The simple answer is no, your mash tun won't overflow because you do not mash with the total volume of brewing liquor from the start.
Your mash tun (11gal cask?) is easily big enough. It is only the volume of your boiler which limits you by it's potential for boil overs. If your plan is to fill a 9gallon firkin each time, that is feasible.

2 methods are generally used.
Batch sparging, and fly sparging. I favour fly sparging as that's what proper breweries do.
fly sparging. My Mash tun is a 30L plastic FV and it's max capacity is about 11kg grain and 23L of water. I mash like this for 90mins, recirculate a while til the wort runs clear then start collecting it whilst simultaneously running through about another 45-55L of sparge water depending on desired OG and volume. Sparging less results in a higher OG but usually less efficiency (extraction of sugar from the grains).
The grain absorbs about 1L per Kg in the Mash tun, a 75min boil usually boils off about 6-7L and I reckon I lose about 3L retained in the hops and boiler deadspace.
I get a yield of about 55L of 1.042 OG (4.1% ABVish beer) from this at overall efficiency of about 80%. Using an 11gallon? (49.5L) keg as a mash tun you will have more than enough space as it's much bigger than my mash tun. I've just done a stronger brew using about 10Kg of grain and collected 46L of 1.050 OG wort (78% efficiency). That should be about 5%ABV and would still be enough to fill a 9gal firkin. The strongest brew I did was 5.9% ABV, 46.5L and somehow managed an efficiency of 80% from 11Kg of grain.

The other method is Batch sparging, easier to rig up but not one I've dabbled in. Do your first mash with a ratio probably up to 3L/Kg (your keg will easily hold this even with 11Kg of grain I reckon. Run this all off into the kettle then add another load of sparge water and leave on the grain for another x amount of time. How much and how long, you'd have to ask batch sparger or look it up using the search thingy on the forum.

I can pm you my calculation spreadsheets if you like.

After a few brews, you get the feel of your kit, and it's limitations and can make more accurate estimates.