Murky beer from Robobrew

[Gingerbrews]

Got my Robobrew/Brewzilla in June and have done 6 brews so far.
Apart from Brew No.3 (which was a Coniston Bluebird clone), brew Nos.1,2,4 have all been really cloudy.
Brew No.1 particularly is a tried and tested recipe and a favourite of mine which I have brewed many
times with great success and clarity.
I have been using the hopspider when brewing and there seems to be a load of trub left in the kettle
when the wort is transferred to the FV.
My only thought is that the bag I used for BIAB was a lot finer mesh than the Robobrew's metal filter.
All the brews had Protafloc added 15 mins from the end of the boil.
Any help would be appreciated, as Brew No.4 looks like dirty ditchwater in the bottle.

 

[foxy]

Got my Robobrew/Brewzilla in June and have done 6 brews so far.
Apart from Brew No.3 (which was a Coniston Bluebird clone), brew Nos.1,2,4 have all been really cloudy.
Brew No.1 particularly is a tried and tested recipe and a favourite of mine which I have brewed many
times with great success and clarity.
I have been using the hopspider when brewing and there seems to be a load of trub left in the kettle
when the wort is transferred to the FV.
My only thought is that the bag I used for BIAB was a lot finer mesh than the Robobrew's metal filter.
All the brews had Protafloc added 15 mins from the end of the boil.
Any help would be appreciated, as Brew No.4 looks like dirty ditchwater in the bottle.

If you are leaving the trub in the kettle then there is no reason to have cloudy beer a clear beer into the fermenter is a clear beer out. Cold crash drops everything in the fermenter to a compact bed, no finings required. How is your boil, and how long?

 

[Henders]

I've had several conversations of a similar theme where friends follow exactly the same recipe (ish, see my idea below) and in theory the same process.

Water! I checked my water profile and I got lucky, seems to be missing anything very negative and a decent enough balance other than potentially a taste for beer stone but I've yet to experience that. Do you have access to the water profile information? I believe if you're on a mains supply Thames Water make it publicly available.

 

[Gingerbrews]

I do a 60 min boil.
Haven't considered water profile but will give it a thought. I'm in Glasgow so don't think Thames Water would help

 

[Henders]

Haha good point :P.

 

[cheeseyfeet]

After you've chilled, do you let the wort settle for ten minutes before knocking it out to the fermenter?

I find this makes a big difference to the clarity of the wort going in to the fermenter.

Mind you, this shouldn't make a difference to the clarity of beer in the glass though, seems strange that the murkiness is carrying over? I'd also recommend thinking about your water.

Have you changed yeast?

 

[SteveH]

As previously suggested I'd be looking for other variables which may have been introduced at the same time as the switch to the Robobrew, for example I've been using CML Voss Kveik recently due to the hot weather, and it doesn't seem to drop clear as readily as other yeasts I've used.

Are you using a very fine grain crush? Do you recirculate during the mash to trap any fine grain debris in the grainbed?

One thing I did notice when moving to the Robobrew is I needed a regular (rather than super-fine) crush, and also to mash fairly thin so re-circulation is possible, otherwise I had issues with stuck sparge and/or inability to recirculate during the mash, which I guess could impact clarity.

 

[Saisonator]

Do a full volume mash and see what the result is.

 

[Matt_W]

Do you whirlpool? I’ve stopped doing it in mine as even the subtlest whirlpool can bring up the false bottom and then loads of crap ends up in my no chill cube.

 

[Gingerbrews]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
The most Murky brew is a clone of Geary's Pale Ale from the Clone Brews Book .
Thinking of other variables has made me realise that these have all been made with Crisp Pale Malt, this is the first time I've used it.
A possible reason?

 

[lancon]

What does it taste like?

 

[Gingerbrews]

Tastes ok, just looks foul!!

 

[AdeDunn]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
The most Murky brew is a clone of Geary's Pale Ale from the Clone Brews Book .
Thinking of other variables has made me realise that these have all been made with Crisp Pale Malt, this is the first time I've used it.
A possible reason?

Wasn't the Crisp Maris Otter by chance was it?

 

[Gingerbrews]

Yes, it was. Have you had a similar problem?

 

[foxy]

Any home brewer serious about their brewing should book mark some of the useful information from this site below.

Your problem could be anything from the crush of the grain through to the separating of the wort to the fermenter. Clear wort in to the fermenter = clear beer out. It isn't the grain or the Robobrew its the process.


http://www.ibdlearningzone.org.uk/article/search/?author=140Check out Tim O'Rourkes input. This is from 'The Function of Wort Boiling'

Extraction and precipitation of tannins/ polyphenols Simple hop tannins and most malt polyphenols are soluble in boiling wort and moderately soluble in cold water. Tannins/polyphenols are readily oxidised and polymerise to give an increase in molecular weight. Tannin/polyphenols also combine with proteins to form protein/polyphenol complexes: • Proteins which combine with oxidised polyphenols are insoluble in boiling wort and are therefore precipitated during the boil to form hot break. • Proteins which combine with unoxidised polyphenols are soluble in boiling wort but precipitate when chilled and can give rise to chill haze and cold break. The polyphenols may subsequently oxidise during beer processing and may produce colloidal instability in packaged beer. Unprocessed hops contribute around 40% of the total polyphenol content to boiled wort, however most hop polyphenols are removed as hot and cold break. The rest of the polyphenols comes from the dry goods, (particularly the husk), and less polymerized and hence less likely to be removed. Worts devoid of hop tannins give poorer wort clarity and have a lower reducing potential. Producing Reducing Compounds Malt and wort contain a number of reducing compounds which if not oxidised during the wort production or processing stages can provide the packaged beer with oxygen scavenging protection which may delay the onset of stale flavours and the rapid production of oxidised chemical hazes. Many of these compounds come from the raw materials, such as tannins described above, but others such as reductones and melanoids are formed during wort boiling through the condensation between sugar and amino compounds. Darker beers with high addition of unprocessed hops tend to produce the greatest reducing power. Brewing systems with low levels of oxidation tend to preserve the natural reducing compounds in the wort, which can persist into package beer and delay the onset of ageing, improving colloidal and flavour stability. Summary. Wort boiling is a poorly understood but crucial stage in the stabilization of wort and the beer derived from it. Changes in the boiling process can effect the stability and quality of beer.

 

[AdeDunn]

Yes, it was. Have you had a similar problem?

Yup. When I first started AG I used 3 malts. Crisp MO, IREKS Pale Ale and Dingemans Pilsen. The IREKS and Dingemans produced nice clear beer, the Crisp MO produced hazy beer after hazy beer until the end of the sack. I avoided using Maris Otter full stop for ages after, have only just used it again today, no idea who the maltster is though as bought the unbranded one from The Homebrew Company. Foxy can say what he likes, and it may well be usually true, but dodgy grain can still produce cloudy beer in my experience, as well as all of the other factors that can.

It could be purely coincidence of course, as lots of people swear by Crisp MO.

Oh, and I boil the hell out of my wort, always have.

You could try brewing a smaller volume though to give yourself more room at the top, and make sure you are boiling on the highest power setting, just to be sure.

 

[JohnB]

I just wonder if this is the Crisp ale malt. I do a pale ale based on SMaSH recipe. That brew always comes out looking like a German Hefeweizen and quite bad chill haze, it looks reasonable in the bottle and just a little cloudy, but as soon as it has been chilled it starts to show haze. Taste is fine though so I ain't too bothered. However I use the same malt (Crisp ale malt) with adjuncts to make amber ale (60L crystal) brown ale (60L + 140L + tiny amount of patent) and a milk stout but they all come out clean as a whistle. I tried everything, but nothing will clear that SMaSH beer. I always use a bright barrel for 3 or 4 days (depending on my time available) before bottling. So it might be worth the OP trying a different malt for a brew and see if it makes a difference. J.

 

[JohnB]

It could be purely coincidence of course, as lots of people swear by Crisp MO.

I agree with @AdeDunn on this, I have tried many different malts, I love GP (for personal reasons) but Crisp is consistent and excellent quality.

 

[AdeDunn]

I agree with @AdeDunn on this, I have tried many different malts, I love GP (for personal reasons) but Crisp is consistent and excellent quality.

Uhm, I don't actually like Crisp MO... lol I didn't find it that good. Minch Hookhead (not MO, but still...) was a lot better even, both in flavour and beer clarity, as was IREKS. That said I just used a batch of unnamed Maris Otter (as in, no idea who the maltster was...) and the wort was super clear. Sadly the Lallemand Voss kveik is flat refusing to leave the finished beer clear so far, despite sticking to every single surface that fermenting wort came into contact with in my FV.... I swore at it, not by it, and was glad when the sack I had was empty... lol