Moving from extract to all grain

[azza]

As the title, I've done a fair few extract kits to date and want to move on to all grain as the vast majority of my favorite beers are Belgian ales, Trappist and abbeys.

I ideally need all new kit apart from the few fermenting bins and random bits I already have. One of my biggest wants is a boiler with a temperature control as I really don't want to be stood over a boil for hours checking temperature and turning kettle elements on and off. So if anyone can help me with my list of wants it would be greatly appreciated.

Boiler, temperature control
Mas tun, would consider making myself. Which ones are thermally the best?
Immersion Chiller
small kegs I could fit in the fridge?

Budget is about £200-250 but i could stretch higher

 

[airymary]

Hi
Start at the end and work backwards. Fridge-sized kegs? Maybe minikegs, eg: http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/cat196_1.htm
Taking those as an example, your capacity to store and dispense beer will determine your brewlength, so you could brew to fill 4 minikegs at a time, for a brewlength of 20 litres - not too demanding.

Your MT then needs to accommodate the volume of grains and liquor appropriate to the style of beer you plan to brew - say 4kg/12 litres for a middling strength 'session' beer (more for stronger beers). There's no shortage of 24 litre coolboxes in High St shops and supermarkets for £10 to £15. Some coolboxes don't have insulation, just an air gap between inner and outer skins - wrapping in a blanket or similar usually helps. You drill a hole in it for a tap or ball valve that will accept your chosen form of grain filter inside the MT (which can be as simple as a metre of net curtain from 'dahn the market' as a grain trap. That's what I've used for my last 50 odd AG brews).

Can't speak for the IC. I made a 'copper pipe in coiled hose' CFC. Not difficult to make (even for me - no engineering background and few DiY skills!). It's efficient, and has since had a pump added. It now puts 46 litres/10 galls into my FV in about 30 mins. If you don't fancy the DiY approach, there's various sellers of ICs on Ebay and elsewhere.

Your boiler really doesn't need temp control. Once it's boiling, it's boiling - there's nothing to stand over, and no intervention needed. You could look at commercial ones, eg:
http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/item591.htm

Where you really need temp control is on your HLT, which you've not mentioned - maybe you already have one? So long as it's about 20% greater capacity than your boil volume, it will accommodate all your mash and sparge liquor.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[azza]

Hi
Start at the end and work backwards. Fridge-sized kegs? Maybe minikegs, eg: http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/cat196_1.htm
Taking those as an example, your capacity to store and dispense beer will determine your brewlength, so you could brew to fill 4 minikegs at a time, for a brewlength of 20 litres - not too demanding.

Your MT then needs to accommodate the volume of grains and liquor appropriate to the style of beer you plan to brew - say 4kg/12 litres for a middling strength 'session' beer (more for stronger beers). There's no shortage of 24 litre coolboxes in High St shops and supermarkets for £10 to £15. Some coolboxes don't have insulation, just an air gap between inner and outer skins - wrapping in a blanket or similar usually helps. You drill a hole in it for a tap or ball valve that will accept your chosen form of grain filter inside the MT (which can be as simple as a metre of net curtain from 'dahn the market' as a grain trap. That's what I've used for my last 50 odd AG brews).

Can't speak for the IC. I made a 'copper pipe in coiled hose' CFC. Not difficult to make (even for me - no engineering background and few DiY skills!). It's efficient, and has since had a pump added. It now puts 46 litres/10 galls into my FV in about 30 mins. If you don't fancy the DiY approach, there's various sellers of ICs on Ebay and elsewhere.

Your boiler really doesn't need temp control. Once it's boiling, it's boiling - there's nothing to stand over, and no intervention needed. You could look at commercial ones, eg:
http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/item591.htm

Where you really need temp control is on your HLT, which you've not mentioned - maybe you already have one? So long as it's about 20% greater capacity than your boil volume, it will accommodate all your mash and sparge liquor.

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for you reply. In answer to some of your questions:

1. Mini kegs sound ideal as i could drink 2-3 and hopefully forget about the last while it ages. My only concern in the amount of head that will come out and the pressure inside of it?
2. I was planning on doing a brews of about 5 gallons as this seems to be the most widely used volume I've came across?
3. mash tun, I was looking at just buying one from a homebrew shop but if they are 4x more than making my own I will look into it.
4. I have aquired a cooler from ebay today, was cheap so..
5. I was planning on using the electric boiler as the HLT to save on storage space which is why I wanted one with the temperature control. I have seen the kettle conversion on this forum which seems like a great idea but theres no way i could make that control box that goes with it. Does anyone sell something along those lines?

thanks again

 

[Fil]

To brew ag all u NEED is a big enough boil pot and a grain bag. and if u invest in something like a 50l pot or perhaps 40l buffalo, If the LONG brewday isnt your cuppa tea then u will recoup most of your investement selling 2nd hand..

cheapest option i can think of is 2 x kettle elements in a mango barrel, but would suggest a SS pot or buffalo as optimum choices.

and if u do enjoy the day will brew u a good beer and it u want to invest in more toys (sorry kit) u can.

for a first brew a stock pot could be used on a stovetop, a buffalo may need the overboil bypassing but that is well documented.. adding /upgrading valves isnt necessary syphons work and hopsocks negate the immediate need for hop filters..

and the best way to decide what kit you would appreciate the use of on a brewday is to have a brewday with minimal kit and see what would make the day go better..

If u opt for a tun i would consider something big enough to allow batch sparging giving you more brewday options. insulation needent be pretty and the £shop sells closed cell camping mats and space blankets

when heating strike water you want temp control to hit your strike and sparge temps efficiently see stc1000 + relay upgrades, or if u like hours of reading on the web pid controllers.. For maintaining a rolling boil with an excess of electrical power at your hands a temp controller isnt the ideal control animal, and u want to look at different options, and the easiest is the turn off the 2nd element approach if not ideal u can look at power controlers like hi amp pwm controllers or resistance controlled ssrs.. BUt 2 different jobs..

enjoy ag, im sure u will be hooked

 

[airymary]

Hi again Azza

Sounds like you're making progress, what with your cooler ordered an' all!

I've thought one of these would be good in a MT if you make one, with its hosetail moulded spout:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330790605462?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Bit pricey, maybe, but not much different to a tank connector and ball valve, all-in.

I understand your need for temp control now, if your boiler has to double-up as HLT. Plenty of folk brew that way - use the FV and other buckets as run-off vessels for mash and sparge, then return to the HLT/boiler to boil. They say it works perfectly well.

The Electrim boiler I linked to comes with a control unit. It might hold full mash and sparge volume for a 23 litre/5 gall brewlength, but would probably need a small top-up whilst mashing, especially if you go to 25 litres to fill 5 minikegs at a time. At the mo, Nisbets have a good offer on the 40 litre buffalo boiler:
http://www.nisbets.co.uk/manual-fill-water-boiler/CC193/ProductDetail.raction
Should hold full volume, and little more than the plaggy Electrim boiler. Very popular with homebrewers - just swap the tap for a ball valve, and you're away!

I've never used minikegs - I would need a lot of them to maintain a constant supply, but then, I like to mature my brews for 4 weeks or so. (It then disappears with alarming speed - it's all those visitors, honest!).

Anyway, whichever route you take, have fun. Specc'ing and sorting your equipment is certainly a part of it. And, as Fil says, enjoy AG.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[azza]

Some great advised. So far i've sorted the following:

Mash tun: Got a 30L coleman cooler from ebay that was already fitted for homebrew, £60 inc Del.
Boiler - Nesbits are getting an order for that buffalo boiler tomorrow so hopefully it should turn up at some point this week
Cooler - Already ordered so should be arriving this week at some piont
bottling/kegs - Tesco had coppers plastics at 1/2 price so I've got 2 boxes for "samples" also ordered quite a few of those mini kegs to store the vast majority of brews.

Any other bigImportant items I'm forgetting?

 

[airymary]

Hi

Seems like you're well on the way. Queries:

Will the cooler (immersion cooling coil?) fit the boiler's internal dimensions?

Do you have the tap and bulbs for the minikegs, or are they fitted with a tap?

Homebrew left too long in a fridge will get a chill haze if it gets too cold. Can you turn the fridge down/off - will you keep food in it as well?

My MT was based on a coolbox I got on Gumtree. I already had a spare tap to put in it (plus a hole bit for the tap hole). Cost a fiver :smile: It's getting a bit weary now - it's done 50 odd mashes.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[azza]

Hi

Seems like you're well on the way. Queries:

Will the cooler (immersion cooling coil?) fit the boiler's internal dimensions?

Do you have the tap and bulbs for the minikegs, or are they fitted with a tap?

Homebrew left too long in a fridge will get a chill haze if it gets too cold. Can you turn the fridge down/off - will you keep food in it as well?

My MT was based on a coolbox I got on Gumtree. I already had a spare tap to put in it (plus a hole bit for the tap hole). Cost a fiver :smile: It's getting a bit weary now - it's done 50 odd mashes.

Cheers,
Chris

I haven't give the cooler much thought to be honest, if it doesn't fit I can always have a go at man handling it into something a bit more snug.

The mini kegs have their own little tape at the bottom but i have also ordered a decent metal one with co2 bulbs in the handle.

The fridge is the old one from the kitchen that now only holds beer for bbq's and such. I normally have a few bottles in there but i'm planning on keeping the kegs on shelves and putting them in the fridge a few days before drinking. I don't think I will get a chill haze as I hardly give them enough time to mature before cracking a batch open.

 

[airymary]

Hi again Azza

If you've got a dedicated fridge, you're most of the way there!

I don't think I will get a chill haze as I hardly give them enough time to mature before cracking a batch open.

Chill haze is caused by proteins that are normally in solution. They come out of solution at low temps - it's nothing to do with the way you produce your beer. Usually, the lowest (least cold) setting for a fridge's thermostat is too cold to prevent chill haze. From what you describe, I'm afraid you're in for some hazy beer If your preferred beer style isn't a clear pint, it won't matter - there's no affect on flavour.

It's possible to control the temp more precisely, but you have to roll your sleeves up! Make your own temp control to govern the fridge. There's a ready-made one available from a forum member here:

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48043&highlight=temperature+control

I think that's more elaborate (and expensive) than you need - it can control both heating and cooling in a fermentation cupboard. You can make one for £25 to £30 (I'm currently accumulating the bits I need to make one for my HLT). If your fridge is knocking-on a bit, so less efficient, you might be in luck. Otherwise...

Cheers,
Chris