More on efficiency....

[BREWERS DROOP]

If your beer tastes good carry on

 

[Clint]

Yes the efficiency is very consistent and my beer tastes better than good so perhaps I'll try a better sparge technique to see if it makes a difference and not get too worried about it all...working it out to reach the 75% I would like generally would take half a kg of malt...50p...crikey!

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
This makes interesting reading, from here.
Traditional British style infusion mashes are with about 2-2.5 l/kg very thick and German style mashes are generally much thinner (3.5-5 l/kg). Historically this is rooted in the fact that the latter needed to be pumped and stirred.
In the limit of attenuation experiments it was shown that a 5 l/kg (2.4 qt/lb) mash showed much better conversion efficiency than a 2.5 l/kg (1.2 qt/lb) mash. This is also supported by anecdotal experience from home brewers who found that thin mashes generally lead to better overall efficiency.

 

[LarryF]

Yes I'm an airlock sniffer!!!

Like it!!!!

 

[Ciaran12s]

Like it!!!!

I caught my 2 and a half year old boy sucking the airlock the other day!
:blush::facepalm::laugh2:

 

[Smileyr8]

like a RIMS system?

Yes I suppose, to be honest I had to lookup "RIMS system" I had seen the term used but never took any notice of the meaning.

I basically wanted to try to replicate (as cheaply as possible) a Grainfather system.

The system has evolved as I have seen areas for improvement, its still not perfect but suppose thats the beauty of doing something youself.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

Yes I suppose, to be honest I had to lookup "RIMS system" I had seen the term used but never took any notice of the meaning.

I basically wanted to try to replicate (as cheaply as possible) a Grainfather system.

The system has evolved as I have seen areas for improvement, its still not perfect but suppose thats the beauty of doing something youself.

I still have a chugger pump in the box i bought 18 months ago to try and incorporate into my 3 pots to do a re circulation mash,but not really sure yet,i do get good results as is sparging,but i think re circulation is a better way of keeping those grains rinsed continually,and maintaining the same temp.

 

[Clint]

Bigcol49....thanks for that! Looks like at least a double batch sparge is required...does anyone use the sparge temp calculator on the forum calculator?
My next brew will try 2.5l/kg with 2x 10 litre batch sparges. Depending results an increase to 3.5l/kg considered for the brew after.
What’s everyone’s sparge temps?

 

[Smileyr8]

I still have a chugger pump in the box i bought 18 months ago to try and incorporate into my 3 pots to do a re circulation mash,but not really sure yet,i do get good results as is sparging,but i think re circulation is a better way of keeping those grains rinsed continually,and maintaining the same temp.

Have a go I used a solar pump, STC1000 (upgraded to a PID) some 15mm copper a few fittings and some flexible hose and hose clips.

 

[Blinky]

Hi!
This makes interesting reading, from here.
Traditional British style infusion mashes are with about 2-2.5 l/kg very thick and German style mashes are generally much thinner (3.5-5 l/kg). Historically this is rooted in the fact that the latter needed to be pumped and stirred.
In the limit of attenuation experiments it was shown that a 5 l/kg (2.4 qt/lb) mash showed much better conversion efficiency than a 2.5 l/kg (1.2 qt/lb) mash. This is also supported by anecdotal experience from home brewers who found that thin mashes generally lead to better overall efficiency.

Has anybody tried this? I always batch sparge and aim for around 2.5L/Kg

 

[Norfolk79]

The last few brews on my Grainfather (being around 4.5kg) the Grainfather calculator has come up with a mash of around 3.5l/kg for the mash.

 

[Slid]

The last few brews on my Grainfather (being around 4.5kg) the Grainfather calculator has come up with a mash of around 3.5l/kg for the mash.

I use 3,5L/Kg in the GF. The Instructions say 3.5L plus 2.7L/Kg and it is around 4.5L that the two calculations come out very close. David Heath has many times referred to an "efficiency sweet-spot" in the GF at around this 4,5kg grain bill - certainly 4kg up to about 5kg.

For sure efficiency does fall off at much above this - "law of diminishing returns" I suppose!

One day I will do a re-iterated mash for a grain bill around 9kg - so two mashes of 4.5kg with the same wort. I did think about it for the last brew-day, but opted for a dry stout session beer instead. Maybe some other day!

 

[BeerisGOD]

It was about 6.5kg aiming for 25litres in the fv. I actually done a third sparge with 7l after having read that a few "safety litres" is worthwhile having in case volumes get missed. (7 litres just covers the elements)
I've worked everything out and now have what should be an exact starting volume of water for my usual 25litre to fv. (I'll find out next brewday)
I actually collected 28 to the fv plus another 3.5 which got chucked in with a kit. My boil off dropped dramatically due to one of the two elements chucking it's hand in which probably gave me a few litres extra as well.

So although the efficiency shot up which is great the IBU'S and balance of flavours is going to be "off" from what it should be. It smells bloody lovely from the airlock though! (Yes I'm an airlock sniffer!!!)

I believe (and really hope) that batch sparging is going to work for me in terms of being able to accurately predict the output (volume at SG) from a set input(volumeof water+grist+temperature). If I've got that nailed down and can consistently produce wort as per the recipe, it gives me a good ground for trying to improve other aspects.

It can be difficult to accurately judge what is "right" and what is "wrong" if the brew has gone off the rails from the start.

I had decided that PH monitoring and water treatment would be the next step if efficiency was still poor. That's getting placed right back on to the backburner for now.(I just haven't got the time at present)

Same as
Looks like alot of effort , going by recent threads.
I may give the campden another try, but use it correctly this time. Leave half a tab in a water filled fv overnight

 

[chewie]

My last brew was a cream ale, 4.5kg of MO pale ale, .5kg flaked corn, .2kg flaked barley .1kg torrified wheat, calculator gave me an estimate of 1.050 - 1.012 (allowing for 2l of deadspace loss) Actual readings where 1.055 - 1.011 with an apparent attenuation of 79% and a brewhouse efficiency of 85%. Now this to me seemed a tad high but certainly others have reported about getting +80% with the GF, the bit that really surprised me though is that this was made with the last base grain from a 25kg sack that was bought crushed 7-8 months ago.

 

[Clint]

Update...I've just finished brewing an American pale and adopted the 2 x 10 litres sparge...my bhe has risen to 75.4% from my just over 68%.
That's a result!

 

[Clint]

Hello all
Thought I'd resurrect my mumblings on efficiency and sparging....
I reported yesterday on a drop back to 68%...based on 23l to the fv..I managed slightly more probably over 24l...this increases my % slightly...I stopped transfer when the wort was level with the bazooka,leaving most of the break in the kettle,this loss would have given over 75%.
Now....am I doing this right?

 

[Ajhutch]

I have that too Clint, I’m getting my lower efficiency because of wort that fails to make it into the FV rather than not getting conversion. I use BeerSmith mobile and increase the trub loss figure to account for that. The last couple of brews I’ve set the efficiency to 70% with my expected losses and hit the expected outcome.

 

[svenito]

I've been doing the double batch sparge now too. I got around 70+ the first time and now I am back down to 63. The good news is that my volumes at least are on point now.

Going to try a batch soon and will give the mash a stir half way through and the do a double batch sparge again and see what I get.

I'm more curious about efficiency because generally I have pretty consistent if lowish efficiency, which allows me to plan recipes fairly accurately.

 

[The Baron]

Has anybody tried this? I always batch sparge and aim for around 2.5L/Kg

Yes Blinky I tend to do 4.5 kg of grain to 20l of water for the mash which is just short of that and just jug sparge with approx 14litres at 65/70 degrees C over the mash and get around 75% eff without trying too hard and don't worry as its good enough for me. I believe striving for too much eff is sidetracking the real purpose of making good beer ( yeah some people will get high eff but does it really matter as it does not make them necessarily better brewers) and as Clint says his beer is better than good.
Making beer is not a total science as some people try to make it I know some knowledge is neede and does help but not the be all and end all just make good beer

 

[Cwrw666]

.I stopped transfer when the wort was level with the bazooka

Don't understand this. I totally resent any wort at all being left in the boiler so I tip it as it nears the bottom. With all but low hop brews the hops hold back the crud and I manage to drain almost every last drop.