More on efficiency....

[Clint]

Hello all
Even with new malt my efficiency still hovers around the 69%. I batch sparge at the moment so don’t know if fly sparging would increase it...
I’ve figured out the way to obtain the og required by changing the efficiency % in the calculator and add base malt accordingly. Today’s recipe would have,had I remembered,needed approx 500g extra pale malt.....or approx 300g dextrose. Would there be a noticeable difference in the finished article if I did sub with dextrose?

Cheers

Clint

 

[Duxuk]

Won't it just be tiny bit less sweet? Shouldn't think you'd notice much difference and probably best to keep the gravity where it should be.

 

[Ciaran12s]

I just batch sparged for the first at the weekend and hit 80%. That's after five goes at fly sparging and getting 60% or less.

Are you giving it a right good stir?

I mashed with 17l of water and sparges with two batches of 12. I don't know it two batches is the norm or not. Maybe this would help if you're only sparging in one batch?

There's mash PH and all sorts as well but I don't know much about that.

 

[Clint]

That' a lot of water! What was your grain weight? How much wort did you gather? I gave it a stir at 15 minutes and half an hour. I drain off the mash water to the fv then add all the sparge water,stir,let settle then drain off...

 

[Duxuk]

I give my BIAB a dunk sparge with 6l of warm water which I leave steeping for 10 minutes, with the occasional stir. Overnight mashing improved my efficiency, as did a two and a half hour mash. Not throwing any sugars away is important. I give the grain a bit of a squeeze after I've sparged, but I don't wring it's neck.

 

[Clint]

My volumes are based on the GH book...I've had reread of the sparge section....
Batch sparge...add hot water to the mash,infuse for 20 minutes,
Would that be half your sparge water?
Vorlauf. Repeat process...
Is that another 20 minute infusion?
Perhaps two run offs are better...
I shall try next time...

 

[Duxuk]

I made 2 brews last year, one of which I did 2 sparges on, having adjusted my starting volume to compensate. The result?....................No difference! Worth trying, though. My single test may be unrepresentative. It may be of more benefit if you don't squeeze the final runnings out of a bag.

 

[Ciaran12s]

It was about 6.5kg aiming for 25litres in the fv. I actually done a third sparge with 7l after having read that a few "safety litres" is worthwhile having in case volumes get missed. (7 litres just covers the elements)
I've worked everything out and now have what should be an exact starting volume of water for my usual 25litre to fv. (I'll find out next brewday)
I actually collected 28 to the fv plus another 3.5 which got chucked in with a kit. My boil off dropped dramatically due to one of the two elements chucking it's hand in which probably gave me a few litres extra as well.

So although the efficiency shot up which is great the IBU'S and balance of flavours is going to be "off" from what it should be. It smells bloody lovely from the airlock though! (Yes I'm an airlock sniffer!!!)

I believe (and really hope) that batch sparging is going to work for me in terms of being able to accurately predict the output (volume at SG) from a set input(volumeof water+grist+temperature). If I've got that nailed down and can consistently produce wort as per the recipe, it gives me a good ground for trying to improve other aspects.

It can be difficult to accurately judge what is "right" and what is "wrong" if the brew has gone off the rails from the start.

I had decided that PH monitoring and water treatment would be the next step if efficiency was still poor. That's getting placed right back on to the backburner for now.(I just haven't got the time at present)

 

[Clint]

I squeeze the hell out of the bag....why would not squeezing be better?
I need a two brew day...one a double batch sparge and one a fly sparge...that'll be in a couple of weeks as I've got 2 on the go at the moment.

 

[ACBEV]

I double mash and always get very good conversion.

Example...
4kg grain
1st mash @ 2.5 L/kg, strike volume 10L, then add 8.5L @ mash temp. after 1 hour
2nd mash, 15L @ mash temp, 1 hour

 

[Ciaran12s]

I double mash and always get very good conversion.

Example...
4kg grain
1st mash @ 2.5 L/kg, strike volume 10L, then add 8.5L @ mash temp. after 1 hour
2nd mash, 15L @ mash temp, 1 hour

I wish I had the time! Haha

 

[Duxuk]

"I squeeze the hell out of the bag....why would not squeezing be better?"
Some brewers think that you can squeeze tannins out of the grist so they just keep adding sufficient water and allow it to drip through.

 

[AdeDunn]

"I squeeze the hell out of the bag....why would not squeezing be better?"
Some brewers think that you can squeeze tannins out of the grist so they just keep adding sufficient water and allow it to drip through.

I'm no expert, but I would have thought using overly hot water to sparge with would be a bigger risk than squeezing the bag. I know that John Palmer though recommends against it, but does say that's because he found that using roasted grains he got harsh flavours after squeezing the bag. That's completely anecdotal though, to truly say one way or another you'd have to actually chemically test for tannins (or other substances that might cause astringency), not just say it tasted harsher. The one thing I did find was that more flour came out of the bag my previous brew when my wife gave the bag a right good old squeeze, a gentler squeeze gave clearer wort... Again though, anecdotal. lol

So to answer your question, because not squeezing MAY give you clearer wort? Found mention of this on Brulosophy too, not linking to it though as I know that makes some folks cross. lol

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I find batch sparging you get a more richer fuller flavour of a malty beer but more expensive as your using more grist, and you wont get your pre boil volume on a standard volume ale. I sparge at 170 degrees for at least 30 minutes and use rice hulls in the mash which improves a good rinse of the grains, i place a circular piece of coffee filter cloth on top of the grain bed, this stops the channelling down the sides of the mash tun.

 

[Smileyr8]

I do BIAB and mash as near to boiler capacity as I dare (30 Litre Boiler) probably 27 litres, and use a recirculating pump to wash the sugars off the grain during the mash. I have a pulley above the boiler to hoist the bag clear, once the bag is clear I use 2 chopping boards to squash the bag and always get 88%+ efficiency.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

like a RIMS system?

 

[Clint]

In my three brewing books ( GH,GW and Big Book of Homebrew )the batch sparge method points to "repeating" the sparge with a stir and rest between each....and to ensure the temp of the water is maintained.
The sparge temp varies too, I'll check later! Does anyone use the calculator to calculate the sparge temp?
Why would you not achieve pre boil volume with a batch sparge? Mash water = grain weight x 2.5 litres,grain absorbs approx 1 litre per kg,leaves x amount + sparge = pre boil volume (roughly)...

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I use 3.2ltrs per kilo water to grist when not sparging

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I'm no expert, but I would have thought using overly hot water to sparge with would be a bigger risk than squeezing the bag. I know that John Palmer though recommends against it, but does say that's because he found that using roasted grains he got harsh flavours after squeezing the bag. That's completely anecdotal though, to truly say one way or another you'd have to actually chemically test for tannins (or other substances that might cause astringency), not just say it tasted harsher. The one thing I did find was that more flour came out of the bag my previous brew when my wife gave the bag a right good old squeeze, a gentler squeeze gave clearer wort... Again though, anecdotal. lol

So to answer your question, because not squeezing MAY give you clearer wort? Found mention of this on Brulosophy too, not linking to it though as I know that makes some folks cross. lol

If I do a brew with lots of dark or roasted grains,I steep these separate,cold steep for 24hrs then drain through a coffee filter then add these to the final boil after draining my mash out malts,boil for 10 minutes or just add the steep grains to your final fermenting volume.

 

[Covrich]

If you are getting pretty consistent efficiency results then I wouldn't worry about it too much,