Maxi chiller for FV help (bit of a long one)

[lindormonster]

Hey everyone

Hoping someone can help here as I could do with some advice from someone who might have something similar set up

I recently bought a 100L conical fermenter which has been set up with a reconditioned Maxi chiller / cooler which looks closely like a 110 series

Didnt get much info out of the guy I bought it off as he was busy with work when I picked it up other than it might need a new heating element

Once I got everything home and had a good look at it all it looks like the section thats been set up for heating has overheated at some point as it has melted the pipe insulation that was on it so obviously I want to get it sorted out rather than just plugging it in as I dont want to burn my brewing shed down

From what I can gather the system is set up as follows:

Maxi cooler which has been "hacked" with a ITC 1000 controller, there is a IEC plug on the front connected to this unit for turning heating on as well as a connecter for the temperature probe that goes to the FV thermowell

Output of the cooler then runs through a small section of pipe to a "T" junction bit of pipe that has a immersable towel rail heating element inside it - This then outputs at the bottom and runs to the FV

FV has large metal coil inside for the cooled / heated liquid to run through before it then outputs on the other side and runs back to the chiller unit

Rudimentary picture i mocked up to show the circuit as it was when i bought it:

(I think that was how it was set up with the heating going on before it went to the FV so please forgive if im an idiot and it was set to heat on return to the chiller - cant see that being the case though)

Question time (and please bare with me here)

1 - The idea of having this heating element inserted like it has been is confusing the hell out of me on two accounts - Firstly the safety aspect of it as its already got so hot in the past that its melted the pipe insulation AND secondly im thinking its going to take a hell of a long time to heat any liquid up thats flowing past it if its just come out of a chiller tank AS WELL as the extra strain that is obviously going to be added to the cooling unit which is going to be having warm water pumped back into it. Im no expert but it really does not seem like a great way of doing this BUT i might be completely wrong hence why im asking

My thought process is I want to be controlling the temperature of the beer in the tank NOT the temperature of the liquid being pushed through for cooling (and at the minute heating as well)

2 - Im wondering if I could get rid of that heating element all together and move over to either a heat pad attached to the side of the FV or a heat belt around the lower part of the tank HOW EVER has anyone got any thoughts on this as to me it would be as simple as connecting the heating device to the IEC socket on the front of the chiller unit and attaching the heating device to the unit

Reason im enquiring about either a heat pad or a heat belt is im thinking a pad would only heat one side of the tank which (i assume) would be less even that say a heat belt placed around the lower part of the tank ?

Would a heat belt be up to the job of doing it in the first place

There might also be something else that would work here - The tanks pretty big but not massive so i assume that a heat belt would be the best option

Im brewing and fermenting in a metal shed so the temp is all over the shop so heat and cooling is needed - I also use Kveik at high temp sometimes so would want to be able to push up to 30 degrees sometimes

3 - I asked on a facebook group and someone told me I should be using Glycol with this NOT water but im not sure if its been converted for Glycol or not - The bloke I got it off said it was running on water (smells like water) does anyone know what would be best here - I would prefer water as obviously you dont die if you drink that but Glycol is pretty nasty at the best of times - Pic of inside of unit below if anyone has any ideas -

4 - Bit of a stupid question this but once I know what I can fill it with how much liquid should I put in as obviously there is a tank but it also has quite a length of pipe to run around as well as the coil in the FV - Should i fill it then turn it on and keep topping up until its not going down any more?

5 - Does anyone know any more info on the unit or how its been hacked - apparently it was done by someone in Bristol but this would of been at least 2016 / 2017 at that was when the unit was PAT tested last - all advice appreciated

6- Any other comments or ideas much appreciated here as I literally have no info :)


To help here is a few more pics:

The unit as it is -

The Heating section of the pipe:

How it was set up in situ when I picked it up (note melted insulation on heater pipe):

Thanks for any help - I can give more info if needed or take more pics if it helps

 

[Druncan]

Hi @lindormonster! welcome to the forum. I have been running a very similarly modded Brandel subzero chiller. on my Conical FV's. I also use heat pads from added sockets. Keeps it simple in my mind. I use Acask jackets and a internal coil on another FV for liquid chilling.
That looks like domestic pipe foam - not very fire/heat proof. I would not use the radiator heater unless it was in the tank (I set compressor protection to 3mins anyway)
Chiller has an overflow on the front (the white mini ships wheel?) I use up to 20% Food grade glycol.
Works great!

 

[lindormonster]

Hey @Druncan thanks for getting back to me and letting me know :)

Have been doing a lot of reading up since posting and I think I will be going for the heat pad option - Have found a giant seed heat pad I think is a good size and just need to measure up (Thinking of adding a layer of insulation over the top of it to keep thinks looking tidy as well

Any advice on best way to affix pad to the side of the tank ? was thinking of taping it with some insulation tape or the like?

With regards to the Glycol - Any recomendations on where to purchase or is it just a ebay job? guessing I can fill it up until its at the overflow? Do i need to turnthe unti on when filling to get it to pump around the lines or fill when off then turn on and top up? - Have worked out the make and model of the unti now so will hunt down the instructions when I get a chance

Cheers

M

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Hi @lindormonster

If I’m understanding the setup correctly I can see how this design *could* work but it’s certainly not how I would do it. If I’m right, the two (heating and cooling) are not fighting each other because only one is on at any time.

The maxi chiller was originally designed to chill an ice bath and you cool your beer by passing your beer through a coil that’s submerged in that ice/chilled water.
The chiller has two sets of pipes that emerge at the front, the two that point up are recirculation ports and they circulate the chilled water in the ice bath. In pubs these are used to cool the beer python (pipes that carry beer from the cellar to the pumps) and to create those really cold beer fonts sometime covered in ice on the bar. You can just loop across these or even cap them if you’re not using them. The two pointing out are either end of that stainless steel coil that’s used to cool your beer. Depending on the length of this coil the temperature difference is 7C or 15C as long as your ice bath is cold enough.

You can use water in the ice bath to just under freezing (at which point it will freeze) or you can add monopropylene glycol (Amazon sell it!) and water at a ratio depending on the temperature you want to go down to. Monopropylene glycol is completely safe and is used in food, cosmetics, and loads of other things we put in, and on, our bodies. Using monopropylene glycol you can take the ice bath as low as -30C I think (not entirely sure about your model but it will be well below freezing).

I’m not entirely sure from the pictures but I think the ITC is completely changing the way the chiller works. It looks to me like the chiller is effectively switched off unless the fermenter needs cooling and then the chiller starts to cool the water bath and that water is used to chill your fermenter. When the fermenter is too warm the ITC switches on the heater (I’m assuming at this point the chiller recirculation pump runs continuously). Within the set range neither heating nor cooling is switched on (but I assume the pump continues circulating).

If you want to separate heating and cooling systems you could consider wrapping an electric blanket around the fermenter as an alternative to a heat pad.

 

[lindormonster]

@Hazelwood Brewery

Thanks for the info its much appreciated

I have still not had he time to set it up and test it all but I have already deceided to get rid of the heating element as it is and move over to a heat pad wrapped around the tank - Think I have found one thats a decent size so will measure up and have a play with that idea a bit more

Will test the cooling part of it all seperately before i start with the heating side of things though

 

[Herms bay]

"When the fermenter is too warm the ITC switches on the heater (I’m assuming at this point the chiller recirculation pump runs continuously). Within the set range neither heating nor cooling is switched on (but I assume the pump continues circulating)."

Looks like he is using the ITC like an inkbird. The bath is either cooling or heating by pumping water that is either being heated or chilled depending on the setpoint. as long as the hysteresis is ok they shouldn't fight each other. I think that's what Hazelwood is saying.
I'm only replying as i am thinking of doing the same

 

[Herms bay]

"When the fermenter is too warm the ITC switches on the heater (I’m assuming at this point the chiller recirculation pump runs continuously). Within the set range neither heating nor cooling is switched on (but I assume the pump continues circulating)."

Looks like he is using the ITC like an inkbird. The bath is either cooling or heating by pumping water that is either being heated or chilled depending on the setpoint. as long as the hysteresis is ok they shouldn't fight each other. I think that's what Hazelwood is saying.
I'm only replying as i am thinking of doing the same

Isn't this doing the same function?:
https://brewkegtap.co.uk/products/i...control-with-2-integrated-pumps-for-dual-temp
"Heating
The KegLand G20 IceMaster glycol chiller can also be set up to heat the reservoir. There is a push in port on the two temperature controllers to control the heating of the device you decide to use.
Sorry we don't stock any submersible heaters for this application. Please note: Installation of such heating device must be installed by a trained electrician."

They do say that the heater is not included which is a bit strange...maybe they want you to break it.