Mashing

[saker999]

Hi
I am really new to all grain brewing. I have a few brews under my belt with reasonable results. However, I have a problem and need some advice.
The books that I have read suggests mashing should no longer than a few hours or even over night but mine seems to take way longer. I use a Burco Boiler with a bucket in a "Bain Marie" set up and can guarantee the temp is constant at 150F. I keep mashing until all the grain has been converted and this can take A DAY. What am I doing wrong?
Rich

 

[Moley]

Welcome to the forum :

I can't answer your question because I don't really understand what you mean by the grain being converted, but to save others the bother, 150°F = 65.5°C, so there's no problem there.

 

[Dunfie]

What process are you using to measure that your grain is converted?

The usual process is to mash for 90 minutes and then begin sparging.

 

[dennisking]

The only way I know to check if conversion is complete is an iodine test but don't here many people talk of it nowdays. Most seem to just mash for 1 1/2 hours as Calum says.

 

[RobWalker]

measuring gravity and tasting for sugar are two other ways to tell if it's mashed :p

 

[saker999]

OK, I was trying to make it sound as if I knew what I was talking about!! What I meant by "converted" was the starch to sugars.
I assume that the mashing process has finished when none of the grain is visible and only the husks are left. Even after a few hours, there is a lot of the white grain left and it takes an age before it "dissolves".
Have I got this all wrong and that there should be a lot of the white grain left?

 

[Dunfie]

There is a lot more in malted barley than just starch. There are all manner of protiens in there too. I haven't left a mash on for as long as you describe but I would presume that other chemical conversions are being done if all that is left is the grain husk.

A 90 minute mash is plenty to convert the starches in sugar ready for the boiler. After 90 minutes carefully taste the mash - it will be sweet and malty. Now start your sparging and taste the run off fairly regularly and you will notice that the sweetness will tail off until you have managed to get all of the sugars out of the malt. Also, at the end taste what is left in the mash and it shouldn't have retained very much sweetness.

 

[adomant]

Hi

You won't see any visible change to the mash other than soaking,you do not want to dissolve things on the outside of the grain walls, that would bring astringent flavours. Mashing at 150 is just to dissolve the starch granules within the grain, there will be no change to the exterior, everything else can happen at a silghtly lower temperature. The enzyme reactions happen quite quickly, certainly within 90 minutes - ripping the arse off the grains will give problems down the line.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

After the Mash has finished the grain will look just the same as it did when you started, just wet. Nothing is supposed to dissolve/disappear.

 

[saker999]

Ah
Thanks for this. I'm self taught so am on a steep learning curve. I made some assumptions and it appears I was waaay out!
I plan another at the weekend so I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Rich

 

[RobWalker]

problem is, it's hard to get a 100% step by step "this is how you mash with the equipment you have at home and here is everything you're looking for." This stuff happens, but rarely results in a bad beer

 

[saker999]

Another question I had has also been answered.
In the brews I've tried, all have worked well but have taken an age to clear in the bottle.
No doubt my next brew will clear quicker too!
Thanks again.
Rich

 

[shocker]

Dave Line used to suggest ,in the 1970s , that one should if possible leave a mash overnight in an insulated container . From what I have been told the quality of malt available at a HB level is way superior to what it was . Whether this accounts for shorter mash times I dont know .But longer times DO give the risk of extracting what you DONT want from your grains ,as has been mentioned .

It sounds like you have been getting some starch and/or protein hazes in your beers from the long extractions .... maybe . I am not a AG god like a lot of these on here who stagger me with what they produce . Honestly , listen to these guys ,they know their stuff ! :thumb:

 

[MikeB]

Are you adding Irish Moss/Protafloc tablets toward the end of your boil, and are you chilling the wort down quickly once the boil is finished? This can affect clarity, and how long it takes for the beer to clear in the bottle.

A long mash isn't a problem as long as temperature is maintained. My preferred method is an overnight mash - generally get it on about midnight on a Saturday and attempt to rise at 6am. The longest one I've done is eight hours, because I slept through my alarm It was fine, but as others have said, the grain should look the same at the end.

 

[RobWalker]

Dave Line used to suggest ,in the 1970s , that one should if possible leave a mash overnight in an insulated container . From what I have been told the quality of malt available at a HB level is way superior to what it was . Whether this accounts for shorter mash times I dont know .But longer times DO give the risk of extracting what you DONT want from your grains ,as has been mentioned .

It sounds like you have been getting some starch and/or protein hazes in your beers from the long extractions .... maybe . I am not a AG god like a lot of these on here who stagger me with what they produce . Honestly , listen to these guys ,they know their stuff ! :thumb:

Malting has come a long way yeah, most of dave line's material was written when diastatic malt extract was required because home malts couldn't generate enough power on their own, whereas base malts can now, and can even provide the diastatic power for other malts :)

 

[shocker]

Malting was a pretty hit and miss affair from what my grandfather told me .He was the boss of a maltings from about 1950 to the early 70s , Sanders , they malted for Guiness , Bass , etc . This was during the rise of industrially produced malt and keg beers served with gas and he maintained that the good , traditionally produced malt was either very good or very poor , no middle ground . So I would expect that the poor stuff went to the HB suppliers . In those days the industrial maltings were still finding their feet and didnt have anything like the sucess rates they do now . During the 70s I saw many maltings in east anglia close down as the industry and mechanisation upped its game . So they must have been shifting some spurious stuff onto the HB market too rather than bin it . Saying that , I used to go fishing at the outflow of a traditional maltings where less than perfect stuff was discharged into the river....and boy was that the place to fish with grain baits !

Where this leaves the OP I dont know , but I thought it a relevent digression . If such a thing exists.... :hmm: :whistle:

 

[saker999]

Thanks again guys
My question has been answered - and some. I have Dave Lines book and found it a good introduction but I guess it's impossible to get everything across!
I do use Irish Moss but I'm guessing a 2 hour mash will cure the clearing problem.
I'm mashing on Saturday so fingers crossed!!
Cheers :