Malto dextrine v carapils. Also recipe help

[davereal]

Hi all, yeah, really just asking if one or the other imparts any flavour or are both same same but different and used just for head retention/ mouth feel . Er etc.. Have used melonoidin before. Same ?Looking to do a sort of american type brown ale tomorrow. 85% pale. and a mix of crystal 55(8%), chocolate and biscuit split for the rest. do have some red x also.Hops, looking at chinook or nugget ? at 60 min. cascade/ fuggles at 10 and same again at flame out. i. b.u's about 35. The nugget are an unopened 2012 packet, so may be a non starter. But if o.k , has anyone used for aroma and/ or dry hopping. Just thinking, once opened and half alright, maybe just use them up.Any tips most welome regards recipe. Thanks, Dave.

 

[davereal]

Just to add, this is a bit of a user up recipe. I do have some amber and cara munich 1 . Don't want to sweet thou ,but a good malt backbone. Not too botherered about colour. Amber/ red / brown etc.Thanks again, Dave

 

[Dutto]

WOW! That's a lot of information to digest at this time of night ...

... so I will stick to the one subject; "sweetness".

If you mash at 55 to 65 degrees you will tend to produce fermentable sugars which won't add a lot of sweetness to the brew.

For the rest "Good Luck". I had a clear-out this time last year and I'm still waiting for the Barley Wine I produced to come good!

 

[Grizzly299]

Hi all, yeah, really just asking if one or the other imparts any flavour or are both same same but different and used just for head retention/ mouth feel . Er etc.. Have used melonoidin before. Same ?Looking to do a sort of american type brown ale tomorrow. 85% pale. and a mix of crystal 55(8%), chocolate and biscuit split for the rest. do have some red x also.Hops, looking at chinook or nugget ? at 60 min. cascade/ fuggles at 10 and same again at flame out. i. b.u's about 35. The nugget are an unopened 2012 packet, so may be a non starter. But if o.k , has anyone used for aroma and/ or dry hopping. Just thinking, once opened and half alright, maybe just use them up.Any tips most welome regards recipe. Thanks, Dave.

Carapils is a dextrine malt, so they are approximately the same thing, if not identical.Manufacturers just name them differently. There may be some differences between maltsters but that's about it.

Melanoidin is more widely used in brown and amber ales and imparts a nice biscuity honey aroma/flavour and will add some colour to your beer, as well as boosting body and complexity.

Carapils will add more of a neutral sweetness in comparison whilst also improving head retention and body etc . It's impact on colour is negligible.

2012 will probably be okay for a bittering hop(as long as they aren't cheesy), you may not hitting 35 IBU though.

On a side note, old hops have their place in beer too, some Belgian styles make excellent use of old hops.

I hope this helps :thumb:

 

[davereal]

Thanks. The reason being , is i've half nicked the grain bill for Brooklyn brown ale and part is 100g of malto dextrine, so not a great load. So after having a look around, seems i have both. An opened packet of dextine, looks like powdered milk and a 500g pack of cara pils, that i must have bought on a wim. Concerning the nugget, if any good, was, has any one used for aroma / dry hopping and would reccomend.Just, because they're 2012 and try and use up and it gets another half bag out the equation. Suppose if still half decent, i could just keep for bittering.

 

[MyQul]

On a side note, old hops have their place in beer too, some Belgian styles make excellent use of old hops.

Do you have any more info/links on this? I normally buy the freshest hops I can and try to use them as soon as I've opened the pack. But I often see old hops at ridiculously cheap prices (obviously because their old) and often wonder if it's worth buying them or are you just chucking money away

 

[Grizzly299]

Do you have any more info/links on this? I normally buy the freshest hops I can and try to use them as soon as I've opened the pack. But I often see old hops at ridiculously cheap prices (obviously because their old) and often wonder if it's worth buying them or are you just chucking money away

Based on what I can remember from, my limited read knowledge on the subject, they more commonly used in sour beers because of the limited bittering quality. They also impart a subtle and unique flavour. I have read of their successful use Belgian pales too, though I can't remember where.


They are often aged in a dry place in brown paper bags or similar for 2-3 years. You don't want them to be cheesy, so I would think they need to age past that point.

 

[peebee]

Hi all, yeah, really just asking if one or the other imparts any flavour or are both same same but different and used just for head retention/ mouth feel . Er etc.. Have used melonoidin before. Same ?Looking to do a sort of american type brown ale tomorrow. 85% pale. and a mix of crystal 55(8%), chocolate and biscuit split for the rest. do have some red x also.Hops, looking at chinook or nugget ? at 60 min. cascade/ fuggles at 10 and same again at flame out. i. b.u's about 35. The nugget are an unopened 2012 packet, so may be a non starter. But if o.k , has anyone used for aroma and/ or dry hopping. Just thinking, once opened and half alright, maybe just use them up.Any tips most welome regards recipe. Thanks, Dave.

"Carapils" I've always thought of as a bit of an enigma. It's basically an underdone crystal malt (or "melonoidin", or "Munich" malt), goes through the "stewing" process but is only very lightly kiln dried and not properly kilned to produce all those caramel and toffee-like flavours. Supposed to add "mouthfeel" and "head retention", and all the starch is converted to non-fermentable dextrin. Non-fermentable maybe, but what stops them being converted to maltose in a mash? And the "toasty", "malty" flavours it imparts? Is it any different to using that amount of base malt? Possibly useful in extract brews as it can be steeped.

But it will contribute "grainy" flavour (but only like base malt does) whereas Malto-dextrin, which is not a grain, contributes no such thing. Malto-dextrin might add "mouthfeel" to extract brews. Unlike Carapils I did use a lot of malto-dextrin - in my drink bottles for cycling. Makes a good paper glue too.

 

[davereal]

Cheers, went for the carapils in the end. only 100g in a 7kg grain bill. So we'll see if it does anything at all. Didn't use the dextrine in the end as the bag was open and was a sticky mess.

 

[BlackIsland]

"Carapils" I've always thought of as a bit of an enigma. It's basically an underdone crystal malt (or "melonoidin", or "Munich" malt), goes through the "stewing" process but is only very lightly kiln dried and not properly kilned to produce all those caramel and toffee-like flavours. Supposed to add "mouthfeel" and "head retention", and all the starch is converted to non-fermentable dextrin. Non-fermentable maybe, but what stops them being converted to maltose in a mash? And the "toasty", "malty" flavours it imparts? Is it any different to using that amount of base malt? Possibly useful in extract brews as it can be steeped.

THIS! I have thought the same thing so many times but just kept my mouth shut. I don't see how carapils can add any different body that any other crystal malt if it's mashed with enzymatic grains- it's not like dextrins in the carapils are somehow protected from the enzymes just because they're from carapils!
Now, if you're adding maltodextrin to the boil kettle, or steeping carapils in the kettle, I could see how that could impact mouthfeel.

But it will contribute "grainy" flavour (but only like base malt does) whereas Malto-dextrin, which is not a grain, contributes no such thing. Malto-dextrin might add "mouthfeel" to extract brews. Unlike Carapils I did use a lot of malto-dextrin - in my drink bottles for cycling. Makes a good paper glue too.

LMAO!

 

[davereal]

Cheers, all makes sense. In the grain bucket now, i could just scoop it out, if i could find it.. Na , so minimal. i'll report back on this one in a few weeks, if there's anything to report back on.