making healthy traditional pure grape wine

[andrew_ysk]

Hii,

I just harvested grape from my own vine, it is sweet enough to eat just like that. Usually the grape should be done harvest by now, but since sun is not so good this year, harvest was delayed due to not enough sweetness.

I never do a proper grape wine before (i have done many batches of wine in my life so far, but never with proper procedure and measuring and calculation.

I would like to try to do a proper one this time, hence would love to have input from you guys what to measure.
Oh by the way , i don't use the C.Tablet for it, because this batch of wine gonna used for Holy Communion purposes (because i am a Christian).

I just rinsed and meshed the grape to break the skin in a glass vessel.
This is my measurement :
grape juice : 14.9% brix
Acidity: PH2.4
Taste test: sweet (not overly sweet) with grape skin sourness

Do i need to do hydrometer measurement ? I didn't take the measurement, because of all the pulp and skin in it, i believe definately hydrometer measurement now is inaccurate.
What else should i do or take measurement off ?

Thank you.
Andrew

 

[johncrobinson]

Just make your wine.

You dont NEED to take hydrometer measurements.
Since its already pulped and mashed up you need to get it fermenting ASAP.

Measurment and calculation is the life blood of science buffs like me.But your grapes wont hang around whilst you do your calculations.
They need to be fresh.

 

[andrew_ysk]

Just make your wine.

You dont NEED to take hydrometer measurements.
Since its already pulped and mashed up you need to get it fermenting ASAP.

Measurment and calculation is the life blood of science buffs like me.But your grapes wont hang around whilst you do your calculations.
They need to be fresh.

Can you share with me a complete way to do dual fermentation of grape wine ?
I would love to know and do a good one. Please.

Btw, the grape must that i crashed that you told me to get started.. it is now no more sugar in it.. no taste of sugar anymore.. it is so unpalatable. Taste like, bitter , sour, dry... can't describe it.. it just does not taste anything like good grape wine.
What is the explanation of it ? What else should i do ? should i add in some sugar to make it sweeter ?
I will do a sg and brix and ph measure later to see what is the value.
Can you please give me ideas and advice ?

Thanks

 

[Stevieboy]

Can you tell us the variety of grape please, and is it red or white? You are also paying the price of not using a hydrometer to determine the initial gravity. It's not too late to add sugar syrup to get it going again. It is sour because the yeast has used up all the natural sugars.

I doubt if your grape was in fact a wine grape, probably a table grape, which have no where near the same amount of sugar as a wine grape.

 

[andrew_ysk]

Can you tell us the variety of grape please, and is it red or white?

It is red wine with seed in it.. not like anything in store.

You are also paying the price of not using a hydrometer to determine the initial gravity.

I took the hydrometer reading after the post, so that i won't regret..
Taken on 28th sep morning: OG=1.056
27th sep brix=14.9%
27th sep PH=2.4

I doubt if your grape was in fact a wine grape, probably a table grape, which have no where near the same amount of sugar as a wine grape.

It is not standard wine grape.

Due to the pulp are floating light on the surface and not so much bubbly.. i filtered out the pulp and squeezed out all the juice.
taken measurements:
7 oct SG =0.998
7 oct ph=2.7
7 oct brix=5.0
7 oct taste unpallatable, sappy, plain

What should i do ? I need the wine to be wine, and able to be stored to be use slowly. .. not like this unpalatable, it taste horrible.

Can you also explain to me 2nd fermentation ? I think 2nd fermentation is the one using demijohn bottle with air lock right ? because i have filtered out all the pulp already.
Should i pitch in champagne yeast ? and sugar ?

 

[andrew_ysk]

I have 2 separate bottle of the same grape at pressed at same time: one look bloody red, the other "maroon red"

Any idea why ?

Also, since the 2 bottles are both only half in volume when poured into demijohn bottle.. i can just mix the 2 bottle so that it make a full bottle of demijohn ? because as what i know, 2nd fermentation is have to be oxygen free.. hence should not leave a lot of head space.

 

[andrew_ysk]

Threads merged - you won't get more help by posting more than one thread, if members can help they will C_T.

I need help , i have my original post linked here, but not enough help .. need help
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/making-healthy-traditional-pure-grape-wine.96235/
started crashing grape on 27th sep
27th sep brix=14.9%
27th sep PH=2.4
27th sep taste sweet enough, but not overly sweet.
28th sep morning: OG=1.056

taken measurements:
7 oct SG =0.998
7 oct ph=2.7
7 oct brix=5.0
7 oct taste unpalatable, sappy, plain

What should i do ? I need the wine to be wine, and able to be stored to be use slowly. .. not like this unpalatable, it taste horrible.

Can you also explain to me 2nd fermentation ? I think 2nd fermentation is the one using demijohn bottle with air lock right ? because i have filtered out all the pulp already.
Should i pitch in champagne yeast (how much) ? and sugar ? (how much)

My goal is the red wine for long storage without spoil (hopefully not too late), hence i believe alcohol volume should be above 14% so that it won't spoil ? I tried to add in as little chemical as possible, apart from yeast and sugar... Gonna use the red wine on sunday only, to remember Jesus Christ.

Appreciate a clear help and explaination.

 

[Stevieboy]

So many questions...right, here's what to do to make that wine somewhere near wine.

1. Put all of your wine back into your bucket.
2. If you can, buy some Red Grape Concentrate from Wilkinsons, add it to your bucket. This will add colour and a bit of body. (sic)
3. Make a sugar syrup from normal white sugar - 1kg of sugar in as little heated water as you can to dissolve it fully.
4. Add to your bucket.
5. Stir a little, and pour back into your demijohn to just below the neck. Fit Airlock.
6. Ferment out (no more bubbles)
6a. Taste it - if still not to your liking, add more sugar syrup, a little at a time. Then ferment out again.
7. Syphon wine off the yeast deposit into your other demijohn, fit airlock.
8. Leave to clear
9. Bottle and drink.

No need to add any more yeast of any kind. There will be plenty floating around in your wine.

The difference between Primary and Secondary fermentation is a subtle one - to start with, yeast needs a little oxygen to get going, so the first part of fermentation is vigorous, then as the yeast transitions to anaerobic fermentation, it does not need oxygen, and the fermentation quietens down, known as Secondary fermentation - there's no set point or time that this happens. Secondary is the long slow fermentation to the end.

The colour of your wine is not deep red for 2 reasons : 1 Your grapes probably weren't deep red to start with, and 2 The deep red colour of commercial wines comes from the skin, not the juice. The longer the grape skins are left in the bucket, the more colour (and tannins) leach out of them into the juice.

Calling @johncrobinson any further ideas?

Feel free to ask anything else.

 

[Stevieboy]

All - see original thread first before adding to this one. Not enough help....!!!

 

[andrew_ysk]

Thank you for explaining 2nd fermentation.
Somewhere i read "they pitch in more yeast in 2nd fermentation, so that 1st fermentation is "yeast with different flavour" to 2st fermentation (using yeast of different profile.. maybe higher alcohol...etc). Is the above true ? *i just want to make certain that what i read is true, however i am not pursuing this .

From your above post, i concluded from your message, add in sugar syrup to increase palatability, because low in sugar content... and that alone can fix the unpalatability issue ?

The colour of your wine is not deep red for 2 reasons : 1 Your grapes probably weren't deep red to start with, and 2 The deep red colour of commercial wines comes from the skin, not the juice. The longer the grape skins are left in the bucket, the more colour (and tannins) leach out of them into the juice.

I left the skin in it until yesterday.. 6 days already. , but color is not what i after.. it is a usable and palatable wine that i need.. because it will take long time before finished up..

 

[Stevieboy]

I've never heard of pitching more yeast in 2nd (maybe someone does it, but I've never heard of it)

I've explained the colour thing in my previous post.

 

[andrew_ysk]

Is this method of calculating alcohol % is right ?

According to this (more accurate ) formulae:
ABV = (76.08 x (OG - FG) / (1.775 - OG)) x (FG / 0.794)
Plugged in numbers:
ABV = (76.08 x 0.058 / 0.719) x 1.2569 = 7.7 %
Hence my current ABV is 7.7% already ?
It tastes so bad.. yuck. How to calc how much sugar syrup to add it ? i can only add in brown sugar.. if it is ok.

 

[Stevieboy]

1. Search the forums for sugar addition calculations.
2. DON'T use brown sugar - it will alter the taste dramatically. Use white granulated.
3. Lower your expectations. This is your first grape wine, it won't be great. Your wine will never taste like a '69 Latour no matter what you do to it from now on.

 

[andrew_ysk]

Your wine will never taste like a '69 Latour no matter what you do to it from now on.

Please tell me what is the reason that it can't match a better tasted wine ? where is the fault ?

 

[Stevieboy]

Because you have used an unknown table grape, rather than a wine grape.

 

[andrew_ysk]

Because you have used an unknown table grape, rather than a wine grape.

I see, so taste is to do with wine variety, nothing to do with my procedure .. Thx. I also have wine grape, these 2 type.. can i still mix them in ? will they save the day ?

I do often saw youtuber do grape wine with table grape .. some even use grape juice.. does that means the result of what they did was horrible like mine ? (and yet they made video of it)

 

[Stevieboy]

You can make good wine out of any grapes - but you need to go back to first principles to understand the process better. Good in means good out. You are trying to rescue a wine that had a bad start in life, which is very difficult. Follow my instructions, and you may end up with a half decent wine.

 

[andrew_ysk]

need to go back to first principles to understand the process better.

Where can i learn this ? I am willing to learn, so that my next batch will be as good. I still got grape on vine for a batch of 2. This time only left wine grape.

Follow my instructions, and you may end up with a half decent wine.

Please show me the instructions. Wait.. you meant "end up with a half decent wine" means this current batch or a new batch ?
Do you have instruction for me to do a new batch so that it is good ?