Loose Grainfather G40 hop filter plate?

[Justin Dean]

Push the middle not the edge and rotate until it hits a point where it is not easily lifted by you. Locks it in place

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Push the middle not the edge and rotate until it hits a point where it is not easily lifted by you. Locks it in place

Ah that's interesting. Funnily enough I did another brew yesterday, and this time when I inserted the plate I tried a screwing motion, which seemed to do the trick - it sort of locked into place. Didn't lift. Sounds just like what you describe!

Cheers

 

[Wowbagga]

Just read this thread. I have had the same issues with the bottom plate. It was not stopping trub going through the pump into the CFC and FV. I was pulling my hair out trying to get clear wort into the Fermenter. I had tried every thing I knew or could read about.
I wrote to Grainfather and they asked for photos of my G40 hop filter plate. They agreed I had a badly fitting version and told me they were working on a redesigned version which I have just received.
It is the same as the original plate with what I would describe as 4 equidistant tabs with a curved ridge cut into the small ring, acting like 'spring-loaded' clips on the small ring underneath which fits into the GF Drain, to keep the plate held fast. This does hold much better, but hasn't seemed to improve my trub issue dramatically. So in essence, their engineered redesign is the same as the hacks everyone has mentioned to try hold it better in the drain. I think the idea is to allow for a better whirlpool so the trub stays on the top plate and doesn't flow under the edge of the plate.
I think the biggest issue is that even if you leave the wort to cool past cold break, you still have to draw off the wort from underneath and that means through the trub bed. If the filter is not totally sealing you will draw trub into the Fermenter.

 

[dcbrookes]

If by trub you mean grain debris, the new plate will not stop this. The only method I have found to stop this is to mash with the bottom plate not fitted and to circulate the wort through a sieve or hop spider after sparging. This removes 95% of the grain debris before the bottom plate is fitted and the boil starts. I always give the hops a good 10 minute whirlpool after boiling (using a home made whirlpool arm), This prevents almost any hop debris from entering the fermenter. Another method some users have adopted to prevent grain debris blocking the bottom plate is to use a BIAB bag inside the malt pipe - I have tried this but prefer the method described above.

 

[Wowbagga]

If by trub you mean grain debris, the new plate will not stop this. The only method I have found to stop this is to mash with the bottom plate not fitted and to circulate the wort through a sieve or hop spider after sparging. This removes 95% of the grain debris before the bottom plate is fitted and the boil starts. I always give the hops a good 10 minute whirlpool after boiling (using a home made whirlpool arm), This prevents almost any hop debris from entering the fermenter. Another method some users have adopted to prevent grain debris blocking the bottom plate is to use a BIAB bag inside the malt pipe - I have tried this but prefer the method described above.

Hi, Not grain debris as such. I am using a fine mesh Grain Bag from MM in the grain basket as you referenced, for that very reason. I use appropriate quantity of whirlfloc at last 10 mins of Boil and also let it cool to 80C before Chilling for Transfer. I also have a Stainless MM Hop Spider to capture Hop particulates. I have recirculated the transfer into the GF through the Hop Spider. It catches so much material it fills up with hot wort. I have also used a MacDaddy Bounce filter with a 300um filter but that blocks almost instantly. Whirlpooling means I have to remove the Hop spider so it's a trade off. I am frustrated!

 

[The Baron]

Are you over expecting to have really clear wort maybe?
Just a thought

 

[Wowbagga]

Are you over expecting to have really clear wort maybe?
Just a thought

Hi, perhaps I do have too great an expectation! But I have friends who brew with similar equipment (All in Ones) and my wort is muddy compared to theirs on similar bills.

 

[The Baron]

Hi if your friend is up for it swap systems for a brew and see how you both get on or get him/her to come and do the next brew with you and see if they can spot anything that can improve it

 

[Wowbagga]

Hi if your friend is up for it swap systems for a brew and see how you both get on or get him/her to come and do the next brew with you and see if they can spot anything that can improve it

thanks, yeah we have been swapping notes! Might try that soon!

 

[dcbrookes]

Hi, perhaps I do have too great an expectation! But I have friends who brew with similar equipment (All in Ones) and my wort is muddy compared to theirs on similar bills.

Perhaps you would consider my wort muddy - I don't really worry about it and I don't think a bit of trub affects the finished flavour. If using pellet hops I don't think the G40 will ever filter everything out - even with a nice whirlpooled cone of hop material there is still the potential for some to get through. The only time I have ever succeeded in getting crystal clear wort from an all-in-one was with a Brew Monk - I had an extra bottom screen (from Angel Homebrew) and used leaf hops at the time. Maybe the trade-off for the convenience of pellet hops is slightly cloudy wort. The only guaranteed way to avoid this is probably to let the wort settle after cooling and then rack it off into the fermenter - I don't do this as I can't be bothered and I try to avoid any possibility of cold side infection.

 

[Wowbagga]

Perhaps you would consider my wort muddy - I don't really worry about it and I don't think a bit of trub affects the finished flavour. If using pellet hops I don't think the G40 will ever filter everything out - even with a nice whirlpooled cone of hop material there is still the potential for some to get through. The only time I have ever succeeded in getting crystal clear wort from an all-in-one was with a Brew Monk - I had an extra bottom screen (from Angel Homebrew) and used leaf hops at the time. Maybe the trade-off for the convenience of pellet hops is slightly cloudy wort. The only guaranteed way to avoid this is probably to let the wort settle after cooling and then rack it off into the fermenter - I don't do this as I can't be bothered and I try to avoid any possibility of cold side infection.

Thanks for the dialogue. I think the design of the GF with the bottom drain will always mean you cannot rack off clear wort unless you siphon or something(?) which I agree is far too much hassle and defeats having a pumping system! I'd be very interested to see other G40 owners wort post boil, pre-transfer! Maybe The Baron is right, my expectations may be too high! :)

 

[The Baron]

I have a similar system that is not a Grainfather but they all work the same usually with a bottom tap.
If you whirlpool after to form a hop cone then use the bottom tap to drop into the Fv so it aerates it at the same time it should be reasonably clear. You can tip the Grainfather slightly near the end to get the most out into the FV.
Ps as long as the wort is reasonably clear it will drop out once fermented so do not put too much pressure on getting it ultra clear infact some brewers tip everything in I am sure the experienced guys get clear beer at the end

 

[dcbrookes]

I have a similar system that is not a Grainfather but they all work the same usually with a bottom tap.
If you whirlpool after to form a hop cone then use the bottom tap to drop into the Fv so it aerates it at the same time it should be reasonably clear. You can tip the Grainfather slightly near the end to get the most out into the FV.
Ps as long as the wort is reasonably clear it will drop out once fermented so do not put too much pressure on getting it ultra clear infact some brewers tip everything in I am sure the experienced guys get clear beer at the end

My beer always finishes very clear and, as I said above, I do not worry too much about a bit of cloudiness from time to time. I read somewhere (Brulosophy?) that a bit of trub actually contains useful yeast nutrients.

 

[foxy]

Hi, perhaps I do have too great an expectation! But I have friends who brew with similar equipment (All in Ones) and my wort is muddy compared to theirs on similar bills.

Brewing with a unit with a tap on the bottom does pay dividends for getting wort clarity. I used to dump the lot in my fermenter then I think I read in the late George Fix book, 'The Principals of Brewing Science' about the difference wort clarity makes in the fermenter.
Even though it is clear there is still cold break in there which can't be seen until the temperature gets down to around 14 C so there is still helpful yeast nutrient in the wort.
Brew two back to back identical brews one with clear and one with all the trub in the fermenter and you will taste the difference.
How do you get a clear wort in the fermenter without a bottom tap? Syphon the wort out after letting it settle for a few hours. Spray sanitiser around the top of the kettle lid, put the lid on and use cling wrap around the top.

 

[Wowbagga]

There are (like everything) two opposing views on wort into the Fermenter. I am of the 'Clear Wort makes Clear Beer' school, so that's why I am frustrated with my G40 output. The bottom centre drain doesn't allow for settling and racking off as the draw off is underneath everything, and as I said the idea of siphoning seems to be redundant effort. I may have to do it to get clear wort into the FV. The picture from Foxy above is much clearer than my wort.

 

[The Baron]

You are right Wowbagga that clear in clear out is correct but it will also drop out too under these circumstances so going beyond what is normal procedures can send you down the rabbit hole/searching for the holy grail.
You may end up on Psychotic drugs and develop a twitch

 

[dave_77]

Brewing with a unit with a tap on the bottom does pay dividends for getting wort clarity. I used to dump the lot in my fermenter then I think I read in the late George Fix book, 'The Principals of Brewing Science' about the difference wort clarity makes in the fermenter.
Even though it is clear there is still cold break in there which can't be seen until the temperature gets down to around 14 C so there is still helpful yeast nutrient in the wort.
Brew two back to back identical brews one with clear and one with all the trub in the fermenter and you will taste the difference.
How do you get a clear wort in the fermenter without a bottom tap? Syphon the wort out after letting it settle for a few hours. Spray sanitiser around the top of the kettle lid, put the lid on and use cling wrap around the top.

View attachment 74871

I have been tempted to use the tap instead of the bottom drain/pump on the brewzilla to help get better beer.
I few comp feedbacks have mentioned a very slight astringency, or something that coming across like astringency (perceived bitterness/balance maybe). Mash pH is good, use RO/tap blend with not over the top salt additions. Haven't checked sparge PH yet but I sparge less volume so I wouldn't have thought it would be this.
Started thinking it could be boiled grain at the bottom of brewzilla or to much trub getting into fermenter. What was the difference in flavour you noticed when getting cleaner wort ?

 

[foxy]

I have been tempted to use the tap instead of the bottom drain/pump on the brewzilla to help get better beer.
I few comp feedbacks have mentioned a very slight astringency, or something that coming across like astringency (perceived bitterness/balance maybe). Mash pH is good, use RO/tap blend with not over the top salt additions. Haven't checked sparge PH yet but I sparge less volume so I wouldn't have thought it would be this.
Started thinking it could be boiled grain at the bottom of brewzilla or to much trub getting into fermenter. What was the difference in flavour you noticed when getting cleaner wort ?

Similar to what you describe, there was often not always a slight astringency but it wasn't from the grains but the hops and always when more hops were used.
I have a diptube and reducer to 6mm on the inside of the tap but the dip tube points of at an a 90 degree angle, not downwards.

 

[dave_77]

Similar to what you describe, there was often not always a slight astringency but it wasn't from the grains but the hops and always when more hops were used.
I have a diptube and reducer to 6mm on the inside of the tap but the dip tube points of at an a 90 degree angle, not downwards.

Hmmmm . interesting. I have fitted a bend on the inside of the tap so might have a go using the tap. Tried a Helix coil but there is so much crud covering it I couldn't get it to drain properly. Do you use a secondary pump or just gravity into the fermenter?

 

[foxy]

Hmmmm . interesting. I have fitted a bend on the inside of the tap so might have a go using the tap. Tried a Helix coil but there is so much crud covering it I couldn't get it to drain properly. Do you use a secondary pump or just gravity into the fermenter?

Gravity and slow, with the helix it has to be warm to transfer, the viscosity is lower cold wort is nigh impossible to run through the helix because of the high viscosity.
I have read of some brewers having success in the 30's C range.