LME with Real Hops?

[ssashton]

When I started home brewing, like many, I used a LME kit. Most had pre-hopped extract and a few even had dry hops too (a massive ~10g lol).

I was disappointed by the kits as I always wanted an American IPA style but none ever produced that, despite the label. My guess is they use pre-hopped malt from a big supplier that was probably done with Goldings or something and no late hopping.

I've been doing all grain for a while, but thought I might like to try using LME with 'real' hop pellets to my own recipe rather than a kit. This way I can control the hop additions during the boil, while also having an easy time skipping the mash if I feel like taking it easy. (Or a mini mash for adjuncts)

Has anyone used LME or DME with their own hops? Does it produce a good beer and can it make a proper American IPA?

Doing all grain I usually add 5Kg of base malt to a 20L batch. How much LME is equivalent?

:)

 

[terrym]

First there are a number of alternative (to AG) extract based brewing recipes in Greg Hughes book 'Home Brew, Beers' including an AIPA. Next provided there are no grains in an AG grain bill that requires mashing in addition to the base malt (like torrified wheat or oats which have no diastatic power), you can directly convert any AG recipe to extract. The conversion I use is 1kg base malt = 0.75kg LME = 0.65kg DME. Although many extract brewers use LME my experience was I got the dreaded twang when I used some LME which is why I moved to using DME.
Anyway more here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/a-simple-guide-to-extract-brewing.75501/

 

[Horners]

When I started home brewing, like many, I used a LME kit. Most had pre-hopped extract and a few even had dry hops too (a massive ~10g lol).

I was disappointed by the kits as I always wanted an American IPA style but none ever produced that, despite the label. My guess is they use pre-hopped malt from a big supplier that was probably done with Goldings or something and no late hopping.

I've been doing all grain for a while, but thought I might like to try using LME with 'real' hop pellets to my own recipe rather than a kit. This way I can control the hop additions during the boil, while also having an easy time skipping the mash if I feel like taking it easy. (Or a mini mash for adjuncts)

Has anyone used LME or DME with their own hops? Does it produce a good beer and can it make a proper American IPA?

Doing all grain I usually add 5Kg of base malt to a 20L batch. How much LME is equivalent?

:)

Every single recipe in the American BYO magazine (in which there are plenty of APAs) have extract versions and they seem happy with them.

 

[Sandimas]

Has anyone used LME or DME with their own hops? Does it produce a good beer and can it make a proper American IPA?

Absolutely, and a number of companies sell kits for making beer this way. Extract Range - Craftybrews - Beer

I did this for a long time before moving to AG. As @terrym says use DME rather than LME if you can, all of us who have brewed with LME have suffered from off flavours occasionally, but never with DME.

It's a massive step up from kits. I'm going to stick my neck out and says it's almost as good as AG, it's just a bit restrictive as with AG you can use lots of grain combinations. But for hop-forward IPAs it's perfect. Use some brewing software like Brewers Friend online to work out of much you need, size your recipe try to use whole bags of DME as the stuff clumps up horribly if left open: you don't have to brew the "standard" 23L, in fact I rarely do. DME prices vary a lot but by shopping around you can get 1kg under £6, sometimes under £5.

 

[ssashton]

Wow those kits are nice! I wasn't aware of that supplier so good to know now.

I'm afraid I already placed my Malt Miller order for 3Kg of LME, but I'll make sure it's the first recipe I use so it doesn't sit around longer than nessicary. Hopefully a busy supplier like Malt Miller will be sending me nice fresh LME.

Regarding a mini mash for adjutants; Going all grain I tend to use extra light base malt and 300g caramalt for an IPA. So I can just mash the 300g Caramalt alone?

 

[Sandimas]

Malt Miller is an excellent supplier so I'd expect his LME to be top-quality. There was another supplier, who I won't name, who was selling rather dubious LME in unmarked cans that produced horrible beer for a few of us.

Yes, by all means add Caramalt or other crystal malts, you can steep them rather than mash them, so temp and time are less critical: 30mins in a pan of hot water <70C. You only need to mash base malts Steep or mash?

 

[terrym]

Regarding a mini mash for adjutants; Going all grain I tend to use extra light base malt and 300g caramalt for an IPA. So I can just mash the 300g Caramalt alone?

I suggest you have a read of this. There is a section within it on extract brewing
http://howtobrew.com/And in particular this section, which helps identify which grains need mashing and which don't
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/what-is-malted-grain/malt-types-and-usages

 

[The Cat]

Absolutely, and a number of companies sell kits for making beer this way. Extract Range - Craftybrews - Beer

I did this for a long time before moving to AG. As @terrym says use DME rather than LME if you can, all of us who have brewed with LME have suffered from off flavours occasionally, but never with DME.

It's a massive step up from kits. I'm going to stick my neck out and says it's almost as good as AG, it's just a bit restrictive as with AG you can use lots of grain combinations. But for hop-forward IPAs it's perfect. Use some brewing software like Brewers Friend online to work out of much you need, size your recipe try to use whole bags of DME as the stuff clumps up horribly if left open: you don't have to brew the "standard" 23L, in fact I rarely do. DME prices vary a lot but by shopping around you can get 1kg under £6, sometimes under £5.

I might try a couple of those kits they look excellent thanks.

 

[terrym]

I might try a couple of those kits they look excellent thanks.

I get most of my stuff from The Homebrew Company. They have a good range, in particular their DME is well priced, and there is a small forum discount.
They also do extract kits
Extract Beer Kits - The Homebrew Company.
I buy my ingredients loose and then make up the recipes from books, or adapt what I find online, or just make them up

 

[ssashton]

I made the LME IPA yesterday. We'll see how it turns out!

I did steep the Crystal Light Malt for 25mins at 65C. I tasted the wort and it didn't taste sweet so... Maybe just 300g was diluted in 12L of water. I did read that light crystal has a mix of extractable sugars and convertible starches so perhaps if I do this again I'll add a 100g base malt.

I used light LME, but the fermenting beer looks far darker than any pale all grain I've made.

 

[terrym]

I made the LME IPA yesterday. We'll see how it turns out!

I did steep the Crystal Light Malt for 25mins at 65C. I tasted the wort and it didn't taste sweet so... Maybe just 300g was diluted in 12L of water. I did read that light crystal has a mix of extractable sugars and convertible starches so perhaps if I do this again I'll add a 100g base malt.

I used light LME, but the fermenting beer looks far darker than any pale all grain I've made.

I use Light LME and it won't be responsible for significant darkening of your beer.
However 300g of crystal malt if it is of a darker colour rating will be enough to send your beer darker than perhaps you anticipated.
And if you do decide to use base malt in future brews you will still need to mash it to convert the starch it contains into sugars

 

[ssashton]

Looking at EBC of malts I think the main reason is becasue this is the first time I have used crystal light malt EBC 100. In my other IPA I have always used Caramalt with is EBC 30.

Additionally I tend to use base malt with EBC 3-6 in my all grain recipes. I don't think the Malt Miller 'Light LME' is quite that light.

 

[Sandimas]

I don't think the Malt Miller 'Light LME' is quite that light.

You're right, it's not. I made a recipe of a particularly pale beer, last time it was full AG this time it was AG with an extra kg of DME so I could scale it up, and it was darker. They do sell an extra-light DME which I've got, but it's only a tiny bit lighter 6EBC vs 7EBC.

You really need to use some brewing software to plug the figures to get the colour you want, you can usually get there with some crystal malt additions and even a bit of black malt, the only issue is doing a really pale beer as I have found.

 

[ssashton]

I tapped this beer today so wanted to report back.

The brew was:

20L final volume.

3kg LME Light
300g Crystal light, steeped

60min Casacde 15g
15min Amarillo, Cascade 15g each
10min Amarillo cascade 20g each
5min Amarillo, Nelson 25g each

Stand 20min @ 80C

Gervin yeast.

Dry hop: 35g Cascade, 35g Amarillo, 25g Nelson.

After fermenting it had 1 week in the cellar to carbonate with 100g sugar and then 12 days in the fridge at 3.5c.

Yeah I know I'm impatient!

It does look dark to me, for a supposed light malt. Taste is nice, but certianly not the same as any all grain brew I've done. Hops aroma and floral tastes are not front line as they would be in an all grain, despite a considerable bill of dry hopping. Tastes kinda sweet (full bodied) and bitter.

Is this what you would expect in terms of colour, or has something possibly gone wrong?