LME 4 months expired - attenuation issues?

[Geithals]

I'm relatively new to home brewing. I bought about 15 cans of expired Brewferm LME1.5kg (50% discount), various colours. I've added 2 cans to a 2 stout brew kits, and used 5 cans in two extract brews, altogether 4 different brews. All 4 get down to about 1018 and no further. I've managed other brews to satisfaction and my procedures are consistent. My temp is stable at 22C. And I tried some of the usual advice with stalled fermentation, a shake, pitching more yeast, a good stir. I can drink the stuff but its not satisfactory for my palate.

The one factor that is changed is using 4 month out of date LME. Is that the likely suspect for my attenuation issues? Can there be attenuations issues with those sugars? Anything I can do to make it work?

 

[Cwrw666]

I don't know about that, but do remember that malt extract is a natural, biological product and no 2 batches of the stuff is going to be exactly the same, if only because the barley they started with will not be exactly the same depending on where and how it was grown. An expert could probably detect differences even if it came from the same farm but was grown in different fields.

 

[Geithals]

I doubt if the barley is the issue, I'm using a variety of expired LME products. The only commonality is the company (reputable) and the expiration. The question is, can attenuation be so affected when using 4 month expired LME?

 

[Fil]

best before dates on tinned goods are basically a guide dont fret..

 

[JimJiminy]

I don't know in general, but the first batch I brewed was using long out of date LME, and I had problems with attenuation.

Although, that batch had a much more serious problem with "extract twang".

I wrote that batch of as a learning experience in the end - poured it down the drain.

 

[Geithals]

best before dates on tinned goods are basically a guide dont fret..

4 brews have attenuation issues and you say don't fret? :) I fret with a calm countenance.
I would have agreed with you before those 4 brews, after all I did buy them thinking their sugars would be fermentable, but if 4 out of about 20 brews have similar attenuation issues and the main commonality is the expired LME ingredient and 15 other brews not containing the expired LME manage to achieve attenuation, therefore I pose the question for feedback.
Possibly I can return the unused cans from whence they came, but I would feel more informed about my reasons for returning, if I was a few degrees closer to a reasoned certainty, rather than offering up a wild guess as a reason.

 

[wezil]

Hi, it's probably got more to do with the yeast than the age of the lme (after all its vacuum packed) Sugars are unlikely to 'disappear' so unless it's actually off I'd say that something else had changed and you maybe didn't notice it.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

I doubt if the barley is the issue, I'm using a variety of expired LME products. The only commonality is the company (reputable) and the expiration. The question is, can attenuation be so affected when using 4 month expired LME?

I doubt it very much, every food item that is put into a can goes through a cooking process. The stuff that goes into the can is cooked thoroughy (sp) and then cooked again in the can. Once its in, its, in. When I was in the Royal Navy we used stewed beef and carrots with a production date of 1969..I kid you not...nothing wrong with it

 

[Geithals]

I doubt it very much, every food item that is put into a can goes through a cooking process. The stuff that goes into the can is cooked thoroughy (sp) and then cooked again in the can. Once its in, its, in. When I was in the Royal Navy we used stewed beef and carrots with a production date of 1969..I kid you not...nothing wrong with it

I have managed a few different food stores, so basically I lived on stuff that was out of date :) I'm not in the least intimidated by an expiry date, I keep an open mind on such matters and exercise discrimination.
If the attenuation issue was down to yeast, that would indeed be peculiar, that would make home brewing to be akin to act of superstition, doing exactly the same thing with the yeast preparation and having a 50/50 chance of it working.

There's a 2 year end date on the LME and my best guess is that some of the sugars become heavy weather for the yeast after the 2 year period has ended, at least with the dark and amber varieties that I used.
The fermentation process doesn't take off like others, a bit more slow, no frentic activity and it dies down too early considering the slow pace. If it were a race horse, you'd call it a plodder.

 

[Geithals]

As mentioned I had 4 types of expired Brewferm LME. The other day the seller advised me to just try the Light Blonde and follow progress. I used a 1.5kg can, this time in conjunction with a Bitter kit in 25 Litres total, along with for the first time, a yeast nutrient and about 500gr dextrose. So far so good, it has been 5 days bubbling at a steady trot and the ABV has dropped at a similar even pace and is now down to 1012 -1014 and with some continued active fermentation to go, I should get down to the desired ABV and my taste levels. I'll return the Dark and Amber varieties for more of the Light Blonde. The next Light blonde I'll use with a similar kit but no extras (nutrient and dextrose) and see how that goes, and after that just make an extract brew with 2 cans.
After further (educational) research, the issues I had with attenuation when using the Dark and Amber cans, may have some percentage (of the attenuation) affected by being 2 years 4 months old (leaving too sweet a taste) and some percentage being affected is normal because the Amber and Dark extracts were made using more crystal and carapils, leaving more unfermentable sugars but adding more body to the beer. And that the home brewer gets more control over fermentation with using speciality grains.